War Stories and Zoe's choice

POSTED BY: usagivindaloo
UPDATED: Friday, August 18, 2006 01:53
VIEWED: 10831
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EMBERS

Friday, April 7, 2006 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sab39:
Good point, but Kaylee's a bad example. Anyone wouldn't rescue Kaylee first don't have a heart...

Jayne... well, Jayne...

LOL
yes, choosing between Mal and Jayne...
Zoe might just have made a different choice.
LOL

WHOME

Friday, April 7, 2006 4:40 PM

Quote:
Do you think Zoe chose Wash out of romantic reasons or out of practical reasons?

Yes.

It's nice to say, "Oh, she picked him because he's her husband." But Zoe's the practical sort, and the fact that she knows Mal can handle torture a little bit better would definitely have played into it. As a soldier, Mal probably would have had some training in how to handle being captured, and Zoe, of course, would know that.

The choice was pretty easy, really. If, say, Wash was still in good shape but Mal had been tortured nearly to death, then it would have been a different story.

Quote:
I didn't see her reaction as 'tenderness' as such... I saw her repressing any response because she refused to give Niska the satisfaction.

That's a good point, embers. He wanted her to fret and be emotionally torn, but she made her choice pretty calmly. And a little snarkily, too, I might add.

PURPLEBELLY

Friday, April 7, 2006 5:44 PM

If Gina put a piece of my flesh inside her blouse, I'd consider it a tender gesture - is all I'm saying

DEEPGIRL187

Saturday, April 8, 2006 2:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

Embers: I agree that Minear's interpolated scenes of torture as entertainment threaten what is otherwise a pivotal episode.

I'd have to disagree. While I know not everyone can handle torture, I think what's said during the torture scene is still important to the episode. And besides, that has to be one of the funniest moments in Firefly.

Wash: Screw you!

Mal: Get in line!

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

PURPLEBELLY

Saturday, April 8, 2006 8:16 AM

Torture can be so much fun if approached with a sense of humour. Free Charlie Grainer now!

J6NGO1977

Saturday, April 8, 2006 12:29 PM

Zoe's choice huh? I like to think she chose Wash because of love. A hypathetical situation would be a friend from my team in work (7 people who I love very much who I would gladly stand up for in any situation)or my girlfriend where in a life and death situation and I had to choose. I would choose my girlfriend everytime. This is the woman who knows my every thought and my inner soul a woman I want to marry (if she will have me lol). So Zoe has that choice which is hard. She is loyal to both Mal and Wash to the death, however wash is her true love, the other half of her soul. It wasn't an easy choice but it was the only choice.

DONCOAT

Sunday, April 9, 2006 1:53 AM

We can take this topic one step further.

Zoe went in hoping to buy both Mal and Wash. Niska quickly denied her that, but did allow her to take Wash out.

Now, some folks in this thread have suggested that she selected Wash out of love and/or knowledge that Mal could better cope with torture, and that she then intended to return to rescue Mal.

But did she? Her buyback strategy had failed (partly). As far as Zoe was concerned, that may well have been the end of it.

Let's not forget: it was Wash who made the decision to rescue Mal, not Zoe. So Zoe's decision was even more drastic. It wasn't "buy now, rescue later". It was "get out with what can be salvaged". Zoe made her choice for keeps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

LADYKNIGHT

Monday, April 10, 2006 11:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
We can take this topic one step further.

Zoe went in hoping to buy both Mal and Wash. Niska quickly denied her that, but did allow her to take Wash out.

Now, some folks in this thread have suggested that she selected Wash out of love and/or knowledge that Mal could better cope with torture, and that she then intended to return to rescue Mal.

But did she? Her buyback strategy had failed (partly). As far as Zoe was concerned, that may well have been the end of it.

Let's not forget: it was Wash who made the decision to rescue Mal, not Zoe. So Zoe's decision was even more drastic. It wasn't "buy now, rescue later". It was "get out with what can be salvaged". Zoe made her choice for keeps.

I've never really thought of it that way. I've always thought it was a combonation of "Mal could survive longer" and "I love Wash" This makes sence and really makes her decision so much more about Wash then her being a soldier.

I still think that the Mal can endure more thing came into play quite a bit. But...perhaps...not quite so much as I origionally thought.

- I have a friend who INSISTS Zoe choosing Wash wasn't stratigicly sound. Now her perspective makes sense. Then again...Wash IS the pilot...

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:45 AM

Okay, here's the thing that makes me think it was purely a decision of the heart. She doesn't pause, doesn't consider, doesn't hesitate, she choses the man she loves. She does it all stoicly because that's how she handles things, esspecially in enemy territory, but she doesn't stop to think about it. And, something that a lot of people aren't taking into account is the exchange between her and Wash once they get to the shuttle. He's talking about Mal being crazy and refusing to break. Okay, so *maybe* she knew Mal was like that and could handle it better, but she seemed a little taken aback to me. I don't think she was sure about Mal. She probably *was* sure that Wash *couldn't* take it and didn't want to think of him being in pain. The whole episode was about Wash and Zoe, and him feeling that she sided with Mal all the time. Her choice was proof that she really was devoted to him. It even tied in with Mal's comment about loyalties being split.

Select to view spoiler:

And...just for the record, I think her reaction to Wash's death in the movie was perfect. Begging him to get up, she was desperate, screaming, and obviously in pain before she tamped it down. And the way she threw herself into the fight afterwards was very telling. She was basically suicidally seeking revenge and a way to unleash her grief. It was very passionate, very in keeping with her being a warrior woman, and it makes me cry just to think about it. and her line at the end, "She's tore up plenty, but she'll fly true." I found very touching. Really her way of saying "I feel like hell right now, but I'll keep going. Keep flying." Yeah, it was a little understated, but what else do we expect?

*************************************************
Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.

Zhu fu ni, mei-mei

FLETCH2

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:27 AM

Appearence is everything to Niska, he has an almost pathological interest in his reputation. In the "Train Job" he tells Mal that Mal was developing a reputation and that was why Niska had selected him to do the job.

When Mal didn't follow though, when he killed Niska's man he damaged Niska's reputation by standing up to him. There was no way that Niska could let that stand.

So Niska needed revenge to regain his reputation, in addition he needed to make an example of Mal, to show other low life's what happens to people that mess with Niska. So when Niska went after Mal he already had a very long and very painful death worked out for him. Wash was not part of that plan, he was if you like an unexpected bonus.

When Niska refused the money Zoe knew two things.

1) He was going to kill Mal. No amount of money would pay him back for the loss of face.

2) Consequently Mal couldn't be ransomed, Wash on the other hand could be bought back because he was an extra and unimportant to Niska.

3) Niska had good reason to keep Mal alive and in agony for as long as he could, because he wants to show people just how bad it is to cross Niska. On the other hand Wash is a nobody, Niska wouldn't care if he killed him or not. Consequently Mal actually had a better chance of staying alive a few more days than Wash had. Zoe knew that if she took Wash now she could save him, she could not save Mal, but she had a couple of days to try and work out a rescue.

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