Is This Legal?
POSTED BY: SoulOfSerenity
UPDATED: Friday, April 7, 2006 22:12
VIEWED: 6590
PAGE 2 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
The legality of this is seriously in question and as you have transmitted funds across state lines, it is probably now a Federal Crime. Not to mention the fact that this is highly unethical. Hope you avoid a "pound you in the ass" Federal prison sentence.
Okay, let me clear something up, because I'm now just a bit offended:
I have not posted this letter to get people to fall for this. Anyone on this site that knows me knows I am respectable person, and I don't pull crap like that. I haven't done anything with this letter yet. All I wanted was some opinions from people that I hold in high respect about the legitimacy of this. That's all. I wanted advice, not condemnation.
______________________
Soul, Security Chief of the Sereni-Tree, Captain of Destiny.
Mantichorus: "So is there a reason they call you 'Soul'?"
Soul (after a long pause): "Yeah. Because I have one."
http://havenofsouls.livejournal.com/
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yeah that was my mistake, I apologize and realized what i did immediatly and edited it, my bad
Kuang Zhe De 
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Quote:
Originally posted by KuangZheDe:
yeah that was my mistake, I apologize and realized what i did immediatly and edited it, my bad
Heh. Thanks. No worries. This letter is going to get filed in the circular file can now...
______________________
Soul, Security Chief of the Sereni-Tree, Captain of Destiny.
Mantichorus: "So is there a reason they call you 'Soul'?"
Soul (after a long pause): "Yeah. Because I have one."
http://havenofsouls.livejournal.com/
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I did this with chocolate when I was about 10, I got 2 chocolate bars when I was supposed to get 36. (Plus they were only freddos).
There needs to be a huge/impossible number of people to become involved in the scheme after you for each person to get 800 000 dollars when you are only sending 6 dollars each. Pretty quickly you run out of people who want to take part.
...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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I remember getting similiar things in my MSN mail,I delete them.
Yup Serenity, bag that letter. As to the DSMAX Leaf, I actually did that. It's posted as Marketing and played up as a real job.
I remember the first time I saw the ad in the wanted section, I didn't know it was sales, and I never knew I'd be going out with boxes of crap to sell to anyone who'd listen. Anyone who knows me could tell you I'm not a great salespreson. I feel like I'm acting and tense up and fail miserably. But they push for the hard sell, don't offer two, you won't make money selling two, make deals and go for the close. It was scary and intimidating, but I learned a lot.
One of the things they tell you is to say these are the last ones left, after this there aren't anymore to buy so if your interested you better buy now. We don't tell them that there's a warehouse full of this very limited crap.
And let me tell you, it's hard enough lugging boxes of this stuff down the street trying to get people to buy and not look pathetic, but doing it in high tempetures, or worse, rainy days. I had dropped one of my boxes in a puddle and it almost made me cry, but I kept at it because I'm notorious for quitting jobs that seem too hard and I didn't want to dissapoint my family.
And the bosses are, I found out to my chagrin, very much like a Jekel and Hyde. My employer was great at giving the motivational speeches, Your all sellers, your all great, your going to go out there and make money, I believe in you.
NOTE: I realized later that the Pyramid Scheme is alive and well here, because for every item you sell the one above you gets a commission, the one above them gets a commission and so forth. So it was no wonder he was so gung-ho to have us push, he was getting a percentage of all our sales. The person who was training me (2 of them actually, young colledge kids, like Leaf said, who wanted an easier way to make money) told me right to my face that if I didn't meet my quota and get the bell rung (that's to show I had gotten the needed amount to make my first commission, I kid you not. Apparantly in this biz there is a quota to make, otherwise all that work you did slaving and selling amounts to bubkis. But they still make money. Fancy that.)
Anyhoo, if I didn't meet it no prob, they watched out for each other and helped me meet it by selling the items for me and letting me take the credit. I was surprised and a little frightened, what if the boss found out, wouldn't he be mad? Nope, they said it was something they all did to help new people, and he'd done it himself. He would'nt be mad. WRONG.
I did it for a week, I tried, I really did, I was even getting a feel for selling. But I take rejection personnaly (which is why I don't do sales or telemarketing) and it was starting to get to me. That, and the motivational meetings we had before we went out. Can we say "cult creepy"?
So I went to the boss, told him I'm sorry, I tried but the job wasn't for me. That's where Hyde came in and that jovial genial persona turned ugly, and I gotta tell you, I was scared. Bosses may sometimes be frighteneing, but this guy SCARED me.
Suddenly he went on about how dissapointed he was in me, how he gave me a chance when I promised to give him 120%, how he believed in me and how I let him down, then he brought up the items my two trainers sold for me in order to meet the quota and how he didn't like cheaters in his force and how he let it slip by because he thought I'd make up for it and..... He basically was telling me to my face I was a lying, lazy such and such and he was disgusted with me. If you saw his face you'd see, there was disgust. Freaked me out, and confused the hell out of me. I didn't think someones personality could change in so few seconds. I defended myself and tried to tell him it wasn't my idea, and he said he'd look into it but in the end he said they were my items for me to sell. I then mentioned that someone said he'd done the same thing to support his trainee and he said, to my face, HE would never do something so dishone
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It's better for everyone in humanity if you stay out of such a scheme. I would recommend you contact the Better Business Bureau and report the scheme. They're online at www.bbb.org
These folks keep tabs on shady business practices and can help build cases against fraudlent schemes that prey on nice people.
No contact goes unnoticed and there's also a lot of great consumer information there. Want to find out if a lending or debt consolidation company is running a palms up operation? They're a great source to go to.
This public service announcement brought to you by the Coalition of Browncoats Who Don't Want Other Browncoats to Lose Their Cashy Money to a Bunch of 
Hope this helps.
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Better Business Bureau is a good place ot start. When I first got of college, I ran into the same job and these souless scum sucking dirt bags put on a pretty face. I was selling products but the fact was that I was being exploited, and the company was asking me to exploit people I knew, neighbors, and the like. The problem with reporting companies like this, is that when under the gun, these sons of bitches just change their name. While eventually it is tracked and reported again, it is a vicious cycle of these bastards always staying one step ahead of "appearing" to be ethical. Thats why I currently working on an off shore company and email address called www.break.their.kneecaps.com (not a real site, yet 
. The goal, of course, is to outsource local "Jaynes" in your area, for a small fee, to beat the living hell out these asses.
Kuang Zhe De
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoulOfSerenity:
So I need some advice. Call me gullible for believing this,
As a lawyer let me give you some advise.
If it seems too good to be true, don't be a sucker.
You can't get something for nothing.
You get what you pay for.
You reap what you sow.
Don't count your chickens until the cows come in.
These are not great legal maxims. Its called common sense.
H
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One dollar each, stamps, envelopes, photocopying, gasoline, risk of car crash, risk of traffic tickets, hours of time, paper cuts... sounds like an expensive investment to participate in chain letters. Plus the possibility of attorney fees and criminal penalties, including imprisonment.
Quote:
Ponzi scheme.
Charles A. Ponzi (ca. 1882-1949), Italian-born American swindler.
an investment swindle in which early investors are paid with sums obtained from later ones in order to create the illusion of profitability.
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com
Ponzi scheme.
A fraudulent investment scheme in which money contributed by later investers generates artificially high dividends for the original invetors, whose example attracts even larger investments. Money from the new investors is used directly to repay or pay interest to old investors, usually without any opeartion or revenue-producing activity other than the continual raising of new funds. This scheme takes its name from Charles Ponzi, who in the late 1920s was convicted for fraudulent schemes he conducted in Boston. PYRAMID SCHEME.
-Blacks Law Dictionary - 7th Ed
pyramid scheme.
A property-distribution scheme in which a participant pays for the chance to receivecompensation for introducing new persons to the scheme, as well as when those new persons themselves introduce participants. Pyramid schemes are illegal in most states. Also termed endless-chain scheme, chain-referral scheme, multilevel distribution program, pyramid distribution plan.
-Blacks Law Dictionary - 7th Ed
It's a fraudulent Ponzi Scheme, just like Social Security, income tax, property tax, Amway and MLM (the subcontract "training" part - retail sales to non-members are ok), all insurance companies, all banks, all churches, Wall Street, and pension schemes - especially govt pensions. Greedy suckers and gamblers make good slaves.
Quote:
scheme.
1. A systematic plan; a connected or orderly arrangement, especially of related concepts; legislative scheme. 2. An artful plot or plan, usually to deceive others; a scheme to defraud creditors.
-Blacks Law Dictionary - 7th Ed
When I lived in England, the British Govt and British media ALWAYS referred to govt programs as "SCHEMES". At least they were honest about their dishonesty.
Quote:
fraud.
1 a: any act, expression, omission, or concealment calculated to deceive another to his or her disadvantage
specif
: a misrepresentation or concealment with reference to some fact material to a transaction that is made with knowledge of its falsity or in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity and with the intent to deceive another and that is reasonably relied on by the other who is injured thereby
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
actual fraud.
: fraud committed with the actual intent to deceive and thereby injure another
(called also fraud in fact).
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
constructive fraud.
conduct that is considered fraud under the law despite the absence of an intent to deceive because it has the same consequences as an actual fraud would have and it is against public interests (as because of the violation of a public or private trust or confidence, the breach of a fiduciary duty, or the use of undue influence).
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
mail fraud.
: fraud committed by use of the postal service esp. as described in title 18 section 1341 of the U.S. Code.
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
So you could be arrested and prosecuted for federal mail fraud, despite your ignorance of the law. Even for local letters. Never mind that the "US Post Office" is a PRIVATE corporation - just ask the postal MANAGERS and they will confess this fact. This would be a valid legal defense to alleged mail fraud, but I've not checked if it's ever been decided at an appellate level.
Quote:
intrinsic fraud.
: fraud (as by the use of false or forged documents, false claims, or perjuredNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Using the US mail for a Ponzi (pyramid) scheme is illegal at the Federal level and prolly in your state too. Check this out.
Quote:
A deliberate effort is made, in many cases, to confuse prospective victims with regard to the distinction between a legitimate “multi-level marketing” (MLM) scheme, and an illegitimate pyramid scheme. I'm no fan of MLM; I regard even “legitimate” MLM schemes as ethically questionable at best. But there is a vital distinction. The important distinction is this: With a legitimate MLM, you have a real product, that is of significant value in and of itself. Most of your profit comes from the sale of this product to people who will use this product according to its own value and usefulness, and not just try to sell it to someone below them. Though MLM encourages you to build a “downline”, so that you can make some profit by taking a cut of the sales made by those below you, you do not need to recruit even a single person below you in the pyramid in order to profit; you can profit by selling the product itself, even to people who have no interest in joining the MLM. In those pyramid schemes which try to pass themselves off as MLM, your “product” is something that has very little inherent value, if any at all, beyond the requirement that one must buy it from you in order to join your “downline”.
http://members.impulse.net/~thebob/Pyramid.html
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Free as in freedom, not beer.
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