Why is Jayne Afraid of Mal?
POSTED BY: milford
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 3, 2006 13:42
VIEWED: 12656
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"Why is Jayne afraid of Mal?"
Because Mal is a total badass and Jayne knows it. Sure Jayne is big and intimidating but that don't really count for much.
In a brawl situation, mano a mano, Jayne can no doubt deal out a lot of damage but Mal can not only take lots of damage and keep functioning but he can deal out the damage himself and will eventually turn the fight in his favor through perseverence and brains.
If gunplay is involved Mal still has the advantage. Sure Jayne owns lots of hardware and is an accomplished sniper but Mal is the ultimate quickdraw artist. He shoots quick and accurate and with guns if you can manage both fast and on target you win.
But even if in some way Jayne gets lucky and takes Mal out he then will have to contend with Zoe who is a total badass as Jayne also knows full well. With Zoe stalking him out for revenge Jayne's best hope is that Zoe makes it quick to end his suffering as soon as possible.
But lets say he also somehow manages to get the drop on Zoe what does he do now. Jayne really doesn't have a broad enough skill set to survive as a sole opperator and you have to wonder who would partner up with a guy who has maliciously and violently turned on at least 4 previous employers/associates. So without Mal Jayne is rather lost and is smart enough to realize that.
David
"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon
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First off I don't think Jayne is afraid of Mal, and secondly I think things are the way things are because Jayne chooses it that way. He could easily go off on his own, or betray mal, or go ahead and join another crew. In the Pilot episode we see he is openly offered enough money to buy his own ship - one nicer than Serenity I believe as the fed put it. Why wouldn't Jayne take that opportunity? Is that just not enough money for Jayne? Of course it is if he's willing to sell out River and Simon later. The difference? Turning on Mal. In Ariel Jayne did what he did not only for the cash but to get Simon and River off Serenity because they dangered him directly if caught because the whole crew would be screwed. What he did was selfish don't get me wrong but I think he did it for a higher reason than money. At the end of the pilot when Mal asks why he didn't sell out Jayne responds the money wasn't good enough...I think he says that to maintain his image and not to appear weak, although he knows he needs Mal he doesn't want to admit it for fear of weakness. I also think Jayne's job as a mercinary has a bit more behind it than got told in the show. We see a letter that he gets from his mom, so obviously he is taking care of someone and has a reason besides himself to make this money. He has his family back home (wherever that may be) that actually depends on that cash. Sure Jayne wants to go out and have fun, make some money, get drunk, do a few prostitutes, but I think he has a pretty good sense of responsibility, priority, and honor. To us it may seem like these qualities arn't exactly applicable to Jayne, but to him he does have those qualities and exhibits them in a way he understands and believes is right. And finally WHY would he not turn on Mal? He has a good thing going. Someone earlier said he knows his limitations and I agree with that which is why he stays with Mal I think he does in fact respect Mal.
-Dan
Ain't that just shiny?
P.S. - sorry I didn't mean to make that so long but the words just kept coming.
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Hisgoodgirl
You're right on the money IMHO.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanielFyre:
First off I don't think Jayne is afraid of Mal, and secondly I think things are the way things are because Jayne chooses it that way. He could easily go off on his own, or betray mal, or go ahead and join another crew.....I think he has a pretty good sense of responsibility, priority, and honor. To us it may seem like these qualities arn't exactly applicable to Jayne, but to him he does have those qualities and exhibits them in a way he understands and believes is right. And finally WHY would he not turn on Mal? He has a good thing going.......I think he does in fact respect Mal.
I agree, Dan! Jayne isn't afraid of Mal, he just respects him for being the kind of man that Jayne himself isn't in several key areas.
Mal is a natural leader of men. Jayne isn't. Jayne responds to the temptation of money and greed and power. And verious characters allude to how bad a leader Jayne is (eg in Train Job).
Mal, Jayne & Simon have typical relationships between men in the Western genre. There is the macho posturing (who has the biggest and best gun/nerve/attitude/you-know-what-male-appendage? etc), the homoerotic overtones when it comes to staring each other down/standing in each others personal space (just look at fanvids like Yes to see this!), the vaguely misogynistic attitude to women (seeing tham as sex objects, not human beings - and the categorisation of women as whores witha heart of gold or virgins). It makes me laugh when men see War and Western genres as so masculine and macho, when really there is a homoerotic undertone to the best examples of these Film genres.
Mal is more mature when it comes to relationships. (Really! don't laugh! Think about it. Jayne's interactions with crew members are really childlike, so Mal does come out looking more mature by comparison!!!!).
Yes, it's true that they are thieves with a sense of honour. And Jayne has his own code of ethics. But living on the raggedy edge of the 'verse puts Serenity on the frontier as real & hard & lawless & ungovernable as any western town in the USA. They rely on their wits, and fly by the seat of their pants. And Mal is their chosen leader. Sure, Jayne could beat him up in a fight, but he choses not to, because he wants to be part of the crew, and because of the qualities Mal has which Jayne himself lacks.
Humbug
"You know what the first rule of flying is?... Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." Mal, BDM
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You've all made good points, however, I still maintain that Jayne's primary motivation for not turning against Mal is fear.
Considering the respect question: it is clear from their exchange in the BDM that respect isn't a primary factor in their relationship. The whole scene in the common area and the ascerbic remarks Jayne makes about Mal and the war demonstrate that. Does he like Mal? I think so, but what Jayne really likes is Jayne.
Witness the most telling interactions Mal and Jayne have. First is the aforementioned dinner conversation in the Pilot. When Jayne leaves the table, it's not out of respect. It's out of fear. His face betrays him. The same thing is true in the BDM. He's not afraid to confront Mal on the subject of Simon and River and the Battle of Serenity Valley. And the way he does it isn't one of repect, it's one of attacking. Jayne is short on schooling by his own admition, but he is long on cunning. And cunning can't be trusted. See Mal's comments to Inara in Out of Gas for example. He tells her what Jayne is useful for, but stresses that he can't be trusted. I think what makes their relationship interesting is that they see each other for what they are. Jayne isn't blinded by the devotion Zoe has for him, or the obligation that Simon feels. He sees Mal plain and naked (How'd you like a bite of this green apple America?). I think what irritates Mal is that Jayne sees Mal as he sees himself: a petty thief, to borrow from Inara.
The inverse of that, of course, is that Mal sees Jayne for who he is: completely untrustworthy. That's why he has to give him an ultimatum in Ariel, and why he has to warn Inara against trusting him.
Now, how does that translate into fear. I think it has something to do with the the nakendness Jayne feels around Mal, that, even more than River, Mal knows what Jayne is thinking. And while Jayne is ultiamtely out for himself, he still worries about the others' feelings about him.
Wow, that was long-winded.
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Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre
That's why I don't kiss'em on the mouth- Jayne Cobb
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I think Jayne is smart enough to understand that Mal is WAY smarter than him.
~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."
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Yep, but in true Jayne fashion, that's as far as he's gotten.
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Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.
Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre
That's why I don't kiss'em on the mouth- Jayne Cobb
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Quote:I agree that the characters' behavior is demonstrates something that was left unsaid.
Originally posted by milford:
I mentioned in another thread how I though Jayne might eventually betray the crew, or something similar, and it got me thinking: Why is Jayne afraid of Mal? he could snap him like a twig, but he doesn't, he always backs down. See the pilot's scene at the dinner table for example. He actually leaves the table when Mal orders him to. Also, after Ariel, he makes nice.
This seems a little inconsistent. Not that the characterization is inconsistent, or that Adam or Joss made a mistake, but the character's behavior is clearly demonstrating something that was left unsaid. ...
"Cap'n's got a mean streak..."
Jayne says this line during the scene in the pilot when Simon has just told his story and they are all arguing at the table over what to do next. He says it with admiration, and a sparkle in his eye.
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EDIT: Ok, so I just read the shooting script and realize that Jayne's line is not what I thought it was. (It's actually about Book.) But, I still stand by everything that follows this edit. It's just more of an unsubstantiated assertion now. Oh well...
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I think that Jayne has seen some of Mal at his most ruthless, and I think Mal knows enough about people in general, and Jayne in particular, to have made sure that Jayne has seen him at his most ruthless.
The issue is not so much whether Jayne is afraid of Mal. (I believe he is to some extent, but I'm also sure he believes he could beat Mal if he wanted to.) It's that Jayne believes that Mal is a man worthy of being afraid of, and therefore, worthy of following. That's why it bothers Jayne so much when Mal backs down from something...it reflects directly on Jayne.
Combine that with the relative niceties of life aboard Serenity, and Jayne's seemingly inconsistant behavior is not only consistent, but predictable. And that predictability is what allows Mal to manage the threat that Jayne represents.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.
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I think we may be overanalyzing. This is sort of like asking why any employee who is bigger/smarter/more aggressive than his boss remains an employee or takes a dressing-down rather than going out on his own/beating up his boss/taking over his boss's company. In real life, lots of people stay employees where they are for a while as long as it seems good enough, even if they could "move up" in some way, with a little effort.
It seems to me that Jayne may well grumble, complain, argue with Mal, think about quitting, think about betraying, think about throwing a punch from time to time, but overall he's probably content enough. He may complain about the quality or paucity of the jobs they get, but he's probably not that interested in trying to find them himself, and realizes that if he were the captain of his own ship he would have to do that. He may well leave to work for someone else if they offer a better deal, but right now he gets 10%, his own bunk and fairly congenial crewmates.
So I don't think there's anything deep behind his "fear" of Mal. He "fears" Mal the same way most of us fear our bosses or our parents or even (some of us) our spouses. These are important figures in our lives who could make life really unpleasant for us for a while, and we aren't prepared to cut all ties right at the moment, so we feel just a little scared if they're mad at us and do what we think is reasonable to make them happy again.
Indigo S.
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Jayne is the product of his environment, before Mal he ran with lowlife's, and cutthroats who care about nothing but getting paid, and themselves. Over time Jayne would have been more like the Captain, than some thug for hire, in the short time they were together, you could see the change in Jayne already. I doubt that Jayne would ever tell Mal in words, his admiration for him, only by actions though. A sense of family also didn't hurt, the ship, the crew, all of this combined with Mal's leadership can't help but to rub off on Jayne, or anybody for that matter, and make them a better person. It's Jayne's mouth that gets him in trouble, because he doesn't think before he speaks. In short the lad was lacking in discipline, I'm sure the Captain will see to that.
AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?
Tee Hee
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