Windows Linux or Mac?
POSTED BY: Haze
UPDATED: Saturday, April 8, 2006 06:42
VIEWED: 42858
PAGE 10 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by retrovertigo:
Hey now, don't go lumping him in with me. I'm not interested in making this any kind of pissing contest. I haven't resorted to name calling.
Fair enough, I apologize to you. I did generalize linux users a bit too unfairly.
This isn't the first time I've had this kind of argument with a linux user. Nor will it be the last.
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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Thanks.
I'd like to address your comments on how the majority of software is for Windows-- I think this is more a function of market share than anything else. You can obtain software to do just about anything you can do in Windows for Mac OS, and (thanks to its open-source friendliness) many things you can't do in Windows without purchasing or pirating expensive software.
There's been a real groundswell of developers who have seen the writing on the wall and started developing for the Mac since OS X was released. Native versions of the Unreal Tournament and World of Warcraft series are prime examples.
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Quote:
Originally posted by retrovertigo:
I'd like to address your comments on how the majority of software is for Windows-- I think this is more a function of market share than anything else.
Well, of course it is! I don't think I've given any illusions to it being otherwise.
It recieved this larger market share because arguable, in the beginning, it was indeed the better option for an OS. Does this neccessarily still apply? We honestly don't know. Neither linux, nor OSX has had the hacker attention that XP has.
Quote:
Originally posted by retrovertigo:
You can obtain software to do just about anything you can do in Windows for Mac OS, and (thanks to its open-source friendliness) many things you can't do in Windows without purchasing or pirating expensive software.
Ah, but there is a few problems with open source. Sometimes, you have a great bunch of folks who are really coordinated and can produce a great project. But, sometimes, you get a POS. A really big, stinkin' POS.
Also, who do you think pays for open source when it's company based (ie: tomcat, looking glass, etc)? Their private software licences.
A third problem, and mostly applies to larger businesses: who exactly is going to support your product? For a home user, it may work out provided the answer to your question is in a newsgroup somewhere. But your best bet is to cross your fingers and hope to god Google finds the answer. And that's really not good enough sometimes.
Quote:
Originally posted by retrovertigo:
There's been a real groundswell of developers who have seen the writing on the wall and started developing for the Mac since OS X was released. Native versions of the Unreal Tournament and World of Warcraft series are prime examples.
Well sure, with a larger market share, I'm not suprised that there's more OSX applications coming out.
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
Well, of course it is! I don't think I've given any illusions to it being otherwise.
It recieved this larger market share because arguable, in the beginning, it was indeed the better option for an OS. Does this neccessarily still apply? We honestly don't know. Neither linux, nor OSX has had the hacker attention that XP has.
I'm pretty psyched to see what the next couple years bring to Mac OS, and I think that Apple won't sit idly by after the recent Safari bug. Their reaction was pretty dramatic, they pushed their developers to find any bug they could, and released a patch fixing about 20 bugs. I think they know that this is their shot to really make a dent here, and they're not about to squander it with complacency. Only time will tell.
Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
Ah, but there is a few problems with open source. Sometimes, you have a great bunch of folks who are really coordinated and can produce a great project. But, sometimes, you get a POS. A really big, stinkin' POS.
Yes, but this is true of commercial applications as well. The ones that are terrible are rooted out because they just flat out don't work.
Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
Also, who do you think pays for open source when it's company based (ie: tomcat, looking glass, etc)? Their private software licences.
True, but on the whole open-source solutions are cheaper, this can't be disputed. If I gave the impression that open source = completely free, that was not my intent.
Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
A third problem, and mostly applies to larger businesses: who exactly is going to support your product? For a home user, it may work out provided the answer to your question is in a newsgroup somewhere. But your best bet is to cross your fingers and hope to god Google finds the answer. And that's really not good enough sometimes.
I work for a large company myself, and we get by using Linux and open-source on a fairly large scale. The amount of money that can be saved is actually quite staggering, and allows us to employ people capable of maintaining our open-source apps while still maintaining a profit margin that continues to grow, year after year.
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You know what? My first post was one in which I complete tore apart Sneaker98's argument. (s)he's posts are nothing but sophistry, personal attacks and unsubtanitated claims. (S)he was the first to put out the "I'm a programmer so I know what I'm talking about" etc stuff, not me. And I allowed myself to be pulled into that childish pissing contest.
Now I see that. So, here's the second attempt.
I am not a Linux user.
OpenOffice is cross-platform and can edit any M$ Office files. For other software that can be used to do many other things on OSX I've found versiontracker ( http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/) to be a great resource along with google.
Sneaker98's list includes 3 *NIX's ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=17589&m=269814#265281). Hardly making him/her an expert.
Just because an OS is easy to install doesn't mean the average user is aware of that, nor does it mean that they'll actually do it. And in my experience, only the techie's will install OS's and will do so for there non-techie friends. These are hardly Joe User types.
Also, the variety of hardware or lack thereof does not have anything to do with how easy an OS is to install. The ease comes from the interface that the installer has and it's organization, not what is underneth.
And to say that Apple uses there own hardware is misleading. An example of this is that Apple uses ATI video cards. Other examples can be found in the hw specs for the various Mac systems.
I've never come across anyone who touts OSX as a flawless piece of software and I know me so I'm certainly not one of them.
About the drivers I mentioned above. The problem would be the result of a 3rd party iff both drivers were 3rd party. Point of fact, one of them was the one that came with windows, which would now make it a M$ problem. Sneaker98, you should really stop making such baseless assumptions.
Although M$ does get some blame for shoddy 3rd party software, this in no way implies that M$ makes good software, nor a good OS. In fact, one only needs to go to security focus ( http://www.securityfocus.com/)) and look through the mailing list archives for proof that M$ windows has never been a good OS.
"Security is decided by quality" - Theo de Raadt
I did not turn this into a pissing contest. That first stone was thrown by Sneaker98 when (s)he said, "Well, considering I'm the fellow who would craft said programs," ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=17589&m=269814#269316). You don't try to pull rank in a place like FFFs.net as you are guarentted to have at least a dozen others with your qualifications and/or better to come down on you if you are making silly statments (which (s)he is doing here).
The people that I'm talking about have basically only M$ software on there computers. To blaim all or most of windows problems on 3rd party software is fallacious to say the least. And another really bad assumption.
When someone says that they won't trash an OS if they haven't used it, and then goes and trashes it even though they haven't used it, that makes tham a hypocrite, regardless of context in which it is said. Sneaker98, if you want to dispute that, then you're going to have to do better than just saying "you're wrong." Justify it (that goes for everything else here as well).
Point of fact, Sneaker98 has been rude to me:
"you're a jackass," ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=17589&m=269814#269591)
RetroVertigo:
"
And there, folks, you have the exact reason why I hate Linux.
Its community.
" ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=17589&m=269814#969324)
implying RetroVertigo is one of the problems:
and Caitlyn:
"
A little bedtime reading for you regarding your beloved linux and its "airtight" security:
" ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=11&t=17589&m=269814#265668)
at least.
All the posts that I've read from Sneaker98 has been very agressive in tone and quite condesending.
So, Sneaker98, you'll reply with a civil tougn
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
New post forthcoming
If it's just another pissing contest, we don't want it.
But, since he did it anyways, there's a simple thing to respond to.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
So, Sneaker98, you'll reply with a civil tougne, or you won't get a reponse. That is from me. I won't speak for anyone else, but I certainly will not continue on this childish endevour that you've lead us down and continue to escalate.
It's far, far too late for you to take the high road, kiddo.
I'm man enough to admit when I've gone too far. I apologized to Retrovertigo flat out because it was the right thing to do.
You, however, are a jackass, which I stated after you had turned this into one big pissing contest. You went above and beyond "I'm a programmer, so I do know a bit of this and that" to "I'm a better programmer than you. You don't know what you're talking about. Blah, blah, blah."
Begone from this thread.
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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In other news, I got my MacBook Pro today.
It's amazing.
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Congratulations!I hope you enjoy it.
--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?
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Quote:
Originally posted by retrovertigo:
In other news, I got my MacBook Pro today.
It's amazing.
My brother has the big 20 inch screen iMac's. Tis a great view, but too expensive for my tastes!
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
It's far, far too late for you to take the high road, kiddo.
Kiddo, that's amusing.
So then, it's ok for you to take this "highroad," but not ok for me to step back, take account of things, and restart? Even after you are the one who started the whole name calling thing?
Hm.
Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
I'm man enough to admit when I've gone too far. I apologized to Retrovertigo flat out because it was the right thing to do.
But not to me then? Even given what I've shown?
Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
You, however, are a jackass, which I stated after you had turned this into one big pissing contest. You went above and beyond "I'm a programmer, so I do know a bit of this and that" to "I'm a better programmer than you. You don't know what you're talking about. Blah, blah, blah."
No actually that was you, as I showed above. You just can't state things. You have to link, quote etc for statements to hold any weight.
And when did I say I'm a better programmer than you? Perhaps you are reading into things more than what's actually there, because I said no such thing.
Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:
Begone from this thread.
You forget yourself.
Basically, I have shown that you are the one who instigated misbehaving in this thread. And you were doing it a good portion of time before I started posting in this thread. Please note that my first post in this thread (addressing you) is 3/4 down the list right now whereas yours is about a 1/3. And you became aggressive straight away.
I have also shown that you lack the expertise to condemn OSX and comment on the state of Linux in general. Namely by referencing your own posts.
You have also failed to substatiate any claims that you have made towards me, whereas my last post is riddled with links.
In fact, my last post takes a step back and only discusses the facts. I make conjectures and state opinions, and use references to back-up my claims. You have done no such thing in our conversation. You have only used half truths and exceptions to the case to "prove" your point, linking to nothing to support your claims. Then you resorted to petty name calling.
Basically, you think you have the ability to take the highroad, but you seem to not be aware that you are floating in mid air, not on some ivory tower. I'm just interested in seeing if you'll look down, realize it, and fall. Much like a cartoon character.
But, you seem to think that your position is solid and are not even willing to take any critisism what-so-ever. So, I have little hope that you'll see the light.
So, continue to use half truths and exceptions to the case to "prove" your points. Just don't expect many to buy what you're selling.
I'll also note that I gave you the opportunity to continue this discussion in an civil manner. To continue, using references, using facts not half truths, etc. And you choose to go in a childish direction ("You, however, are a jackass," and "Begone from this thread."). Not even accepting or addressing any critisism.
Your last post is quite grandose and immature.
Please don't respond to this post unless you are willing and able to continue in a manner becoming of someone who is an adult. Your profile states that you are a college student, so I assume that you should at least be capable of it.
I'll just have to wait and see. And if anyone thinks that this is an antagonistic post, just go back and read Sneaker98's posts in this thread to see what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about continuing with facts and references. Which I've done. Which Sneaker98 seems incapable of doing. I await to be proven wrong.
EDIT 1: How is a 20'' iMac expensive? It's a sweet machine the comes with a moniter, keyboard and mouse for $2000 (CAD)/$1700 (USD)! That's a good price!
EDIT 2: RetroVertigo: Sweet! It living
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