Windows Linux or Mac?

POSTED BY: Haze
UPDATED: Saturday, April 8, 2006 06:42
VIEWED: 42858
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SNEAKER98

Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:40 PM

This is basically M$ propaganda at work. I've never not been able to do something because I was running OSX, never. And that goes from writing my code to any user land application that I could think of.

In fact, I'm really wondering what I'm supposed to be missing running OSX. Because, I really don't see it. That is, aside from the fact that a good portion of games aren't ported to OSX. But, that is changing, and exactly what consoles are for.
As I recall, you use the OSX exactly as intended; the software you need is already there and made for mac's.

But, the vast vast majority of games for instance, do not work on a Mac. And the vast majority of programs do not work either. That's just how it is.

And some more propaganda.

Most (all?) modern Linux distro's come with pretty much everything you'll need already installed. In fact, about 5 years ago, when I last installed a Linux, the installer was as freindly as the windows installer.

Esentially, if you are Joe User and don't need to custom anything, Linux is pretty much as easy to use as windows.

The only point that you might have here is the learning curve to a new system. But, last time I checked, that was true for the first time people used windows as well.
Let me put it this way: I'm not exactly new at computers. But suffice it to say, I had a hell of a time installing Suse 9 on my desktop. Half of the software I had to get third party, and I had a hell of a time getting my network card to actually be detected and get online. Let alone installing the proper libraries and whatnot.

As for windows? I've installed it over 20 times now, and it's incredibly simple. As it has to be.

Perhaps you should check out the long list of bugs that M$ has generated in the OS itself and not 3rd party software.
There's certainly a long list of bugs; problem is, OSX's was longer in 2005 ;)

You yourself this: what good is functionality if I can't use it because I'm constantly having to reboot my machine?
I can't remember the last time I had to reboot my machine mid-use. An overexaggerated problem.

As someone else that is a programmer, if you are in industry and is able to produce this many bugs, you are so incompetent that you should be fired and never allowed to code another line again. Not saying that you in particular are, just stating a fact.
Do you recall Sony's rootkit? A company by the name of First4Internet I believe made the crappiest, shittiest, lamest piece of code to ensure copywrite protection. And it got into thousands of peoples computers.

These things happen all the time, and it only takes one to screw up your PC all to hell.

Also, to your comment prior in the thread, windows 3.1 is not an OS. It is a program that ran on top of DOS which was the OS.
Now, if I say I used DOS as an OS, who the heck would know what I was saying aside from using command lines and a smattering of 8bit games?

One thing that Apple does which Microsoft doesn't is they provide a searchable list of applications, both first and third party, right on their website.
Well... Microsoft doesn't exactly need to, do they!

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

CITIZEN

Saturday, March 18, 2006 11:10 PM

You see I don't get why things can't be solid and easy too use and run lots of Software. Running lots of Software means emulating the Windows API at the moment, which would be lots of work but not 'hard' if you already had a solid operating system.

Likewise, ease of use isn't hard, just get the OS to do everything for you, make that scaleable and Geeks will be happy too...

Way I see it Linux is an OS by Geeks for Geeks, as such its perfect for what it is. But I think if you had an OS by Geeks for the type of people who look for the 'any key' and run Windows software we may actually be moving towards something good, like the death of MS Windows.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:48 AM

@Sneaker98:
"""
But, the vast vast majority of games for instance, do not work on a Mac. And the vast majority of programs do not work either. That's just how it is.
"""

So, then only M$ Office can edit .doc? By saying these things, you are implying things that are provably false ie the previous sentence.

"""
Let me put it this way: I'm not exactly new at computers. But suffice it to say, I had a hell of a time installing Suse 9 on my desktop. Half of the software I had to get third party, and I had a hell of a time getting my network card to actually be detected and get online. Let alone installing the proper libraries and whatnot.

As for windows? I've installed it over 20 times now, and it's incredibly simple. As it has to be.
"""

There are other distro's aside from Suse you know. And as for using your experience with one distro to prove that Linux is hard to install... sophistry.

Also, how many Joe User's out there are actually going to install there OS? Pretty much none. It is the exception to the rule that this is happening. Joe User is going to take his/her computer down to the place that (s)he bought it from to get it fixed. Not do it themselves.

"""
There's certainly a long list of bugs; problem is, OSX's was longer in 2005 ;)
"""

Cherry picking the year then? And how many critical errors?

Wait a minute. You said this previously in the thread "
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1932659,00.asp
Another very interesting article. Mac had more software flaws than Windows in 2005, albeit windows had 5 or 10 more critical flaws than Mac.
"

Now call me crazy, but I don't really care much about flaws that'll make a program crash from time to time (though that is irritating). I really care about the flaws that'll really screw me. And by your own admition, M$ had more than OSX in 2005.

I'd imagine that most users have the same view point.

"""
I can't remember the last time I had to reboot my machine mid-use. An overexaggerated problem.
"""

My parents would disagree. Along with one of my buddies that has to have two system setups because he needs one video driver to play a couple games and another for everything else.

Yah, stable OS

"""
Do you recall Sony's rootkit? A company by the name of First4Internet I believe made the crappiest, shittiest, lamest piece of code to ensure copywrite protection. And it got into thousands of peoples computers.

These things happen all the time, and it only takes one to screw up your PC all to hell.
"""

Please describe you point.

"""
Now, if I say I used DOS as an OS, who the heck would know what I was saying aside from using command lines and a smattering of 8bit games?
"""

You're the one who called it an OS not me. Which as I pointed out is a fallacy. Also, Mechwarrior 2 was a DOS game, along with several Wing Commanders (upto 4 I believe). So, saying DOS only has "a smattering of 8bit games" has be proven false. It also proves you ignorance in this area.

----
I'd also link to know how you think that it's ok for you to trash OSX given that you've said the below.

"""
I'm not about to trash an operating system if I don't have experience on it. (For future ref, I've used windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, 2k, XP, as well as OS9, SuSe, Redhat, and am currently dual-booting with Solaris and WinXP)
"""

OS9. Hm, OSX is not in the list. Hypocrite anyone?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

You see I don't get why things can't be solid and easy too use and run lots of Software. Running lots of Software means emulating the Windows API at the moment, which would be lots of work but not 'hard' if you already had a solid operating system.

WINE comes to mind. I've even heard of people running World Of Warcraft under it!

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/15/1334241

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

CITIZEN

Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:19 AM

Yeah WINE I've heard good things.

I'm thinking built directly into the OS though, so there's no (or little) performance hit and the OS can run Win32 straight out of the box.

I refrenced earlier the idea of writing an OS from the ground up, I still want to do it, I have a name at least (Portal, for port all...) but I'm no fool, the semantics for creating it are pretty staggering.

You need big teams to create something like that ...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

TIGER

Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:38 AM

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I'm no expert in operating systems, but I've been curious for a while about experimenting with something new, strictly from a user's perspective.

Unfortunately, in this thread one guy says "A" and the next guy says "B". Maybe it would shed some light on the subject if you have a more specific, real-world example, namely me. Should I try Linux or a Mac?

My current system:
Windows XP sp2
1 gb RAM
200 gb storage
2.4 mhz Pentium 4
dual monitors

Normal usage:
Firefox & I.E.
Email with Thunderbird
Graphic/web design with Dreamweaver, Photoshop/Illustrator, Flash
Hauppaugge TV tuner with Beyond TV to watch TV on one monitor while working or surfing on the other
Bittorrents
DVDs/music with Windows Media or VLC
Microsoft Office
DVD burning with Nero

Do you think I'd get along alright with Linux or a Mac? Would it be worth the trouble of switching and relearning?

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:45 AM

@Tiger:
It's probably take a lot of tweaking in Linux to get all that stuff working properly. So, for an end user, I'd suggest trying Mac first.

I believe that there are ways to get OSX to work on a PC though I haven't tried it myself (YMMV). It might be something to try first (or just going into a Mac store and playing ).

That's my 2 cents at least

EDIT:
"""
Would it be worth the trouble of switching and relearning?
"""

Depends on you, on what you actually do with it. Depends on how much you like the new OS. This is a question only you can answer.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:48 AM

@Citizen:
Don't think that we'll see it in our day.

*sigh*

Then again, perhaps if you build it, they will come...

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

SNEAKER98

Sunday, March 19, 2006 9:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:So, then only M$ Office can edit .doc? By saying these things, you are implying things that are provably false ie the previous sentence.

Actually give me a reasonable list, or don't even bother responding to the point.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:There are other distro's aside from Suse you know. And as for using your experience with one distro to prove that Linux is hard to install... sophistry.

Might want to re-read my list. I've done more than just Suse; that's simply an example.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Also, how many Joe User's out there are actually going to install there OS? Pretty much none. It is the exception to the rule that this is happening. Joe User is going to take his/her computer down to the place that (s)he bought it from to get it fixed. Not do it themselves.

More than you think. And why shouldn't they, if it's a breeze? Windows sure as heck is. *nix sure isn't. And OSX would be, I'm assuming, because they only use their own hardware in their neat little box (my main beef).

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Now call me crazy, but I don't really care much about flaws that'll make a program crash from time to time (though that is irritating). I really care about the flaws that'll really screw me. And by your own admition, M$ had more than OSX in 2005.

I'd imagine that most users have the same view point.

But then my point would be right over your head, wouldn't it? Folks are touting OSX as the flawless piece of software; point was, it's not.

But congrats on missing the point.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:My parents would disagree. Along with one of my buddies that has to have two system setups because he needs one video driver to play a couple games and another for everything else.

Yah, stable OS

Then what the hell have they installed on their computer? Probably some crappy third party software which is doing it.

As for your buddy; guess who's fault that is? Gee, wouldn't it be the maker of that driver, which isn't windows? Yeah, I think so.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Please describe you point.

Sony made a piece of shit program? It hid all files with the names beginning with "sys_" from the OS, thus allowing virii to piggyback on top. And even more, if you tried to uninstall it, it would corrupt the driver for your cd/dvd player.

Thought the point was obvious, though. There's a lot of crappy third party stuff out there, which windows gets the blame for.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:You're the one who called it an OS not me. Which as I pointed out is a fallacy. Also, Mechwarrior 2 was a DOS game, along with several Wing Commanders (upto 4 I believe). So, saying DOS only has "a smattering of 8bit games" has be proven false. It also proves you ignorance in this area.

I'm taking one thing out of this argument: you're a jackass, with absolutely no concept of flair to make a point. You're so desperate to make a damned point that you'll turn this into a pissing contest.

No dice.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:I'd also link to know how you think that it's ok for you to trash OSX given that you've said the below.

You might want to reread what context that was in (someone calling WinXP buggy while stating he hadn't used it since 98), and what I've actually said about OSX. I'll quote some experts, and link to some articles, but I'm not about to trash it for a point that requires some use out of it.

But, of course, if you actually went a reread what I've said, you wouldn't be able to be a jackass and call me a hypocrit. And where's the fun in that?

Linux users. They always turn it into one big pissing contest about their abilities. Man it gets old arguing with some of these folks.

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

RETROVERTIGO

Sunday, March 19, 2006 5:22 PM

Hey now, don't go lumping him in with me. I'm not interested in making this any kind of pissing contest. I haven't resorted to name calling.

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