It's time.

POSTED BY: Jonus
UPDATED: Monday, March 27, 2006 00:25
VIEWED: 15488
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HERO

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
I own no guns and have no intentions of getting any. I have no knowledge of explosives and have no interest in them. No knowledge of biological weapons or any type of weapon.

Then how the hell do you expect to overthrow the government? Thats like inviting us all to dinner and not having any food or asking a Democrat to give a lecture on morals. You need the tools to do the job. Otherwise your just a tease.

H

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Then how the hell do you expect to overthrow the government? You need the tools to do the job. Otherwise your just a tease.

Stop encouraging violence, Hero! I thought you were all about the law...

Judge Hero:
"I can't break the law; I AM THE LAW!!!!!"

Take it to those who have it not Chrisisall

HERO

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tankin:
EVERY government on Earth have their conspiracies

That's true. Why just today...and don't tell anybody you heard this from me...my fellow prosecutors and I conspired with several City police detectives to have lunch at a very good and inexpensive local Mexican resturant. They have actual SMD (Salsa of Mass Destruction).

I'm having the Chicken Burrito, bird flu be damned.

H

JAYTEE

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:30 PM

Jonus, we have a government that may not be perfect in it's implementation but it is the closest thing to perfect in it's ideal. While I agree that some things in this country need changing, violent revolution is not the best approach. What is needed today is for people to "get off the damn couch" and participate in their government. Unfortunately, most Americans today are as stupid as they are lazy and that makes up the majority. Our leaders love this fact as they know they can manipulate the minority who still participate through either greed or misinformation. Our system has within it's very framework the capacity for peaceful change which is always preferable to revolution. We must elect leaders who truly have the best interests of ALL Americans at heart and not just a wealthy minority or big business. I would like to paste in this one section of the Declaration of Independence that shows what our forefathers thought about tyrannical governments. I only hope that Americans wake up to what is going on in their nation and are able to solve the problems and issues we face without the need for violence.

EXCERPTED QUOTE FROM DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

Now this might have been called treason by some but our forefathers risked that and won. We won a nation based on the Rule of Law, not the Rule of Men and we must all protect it and guard it's freedoms as the most precious resources our country possesses.
God Bless America!
"You can try burning my flag but I'd advise you to make sure your life insurance is paid up!"

Jaytee

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:22 PM

I for one, understand the sentiment, Jonus - the application however is a matter that in these dark McCarthyish days, would be better kept between yourself and your maker.

The walls have ears, as it were.

I myself do NOT agree with the whole concept of playing a rigged game, with marked cards, on the sharpers table, and expecting to accomplish a goddamned thing.

At what point does "within the law" become ludicrous ?
When your protest gets herded into the sub basement of a parking garage 2 miles from the event ? yeah, that'll be real effective.

Don't let any of the mockery bother you - note how effectively your own 'peers' try to hack you off at the knees long before any of the alphabet goons would even bother, and remember the lesson from it, in an age where principles and integrity are scored, and fear rules with an iron fist (count how many times someone mentioned Gitmo), the powers that be depend on the masses to restrain and rat out anyone who *might* pose any kind of threat.

And for all those of ya mockin someone for daring to express such an opinion or feeling?
Shame on you, I dock your coat one shade of brown!

Act according to your conscience, Jonus, but keep it between yourself and your grave, cause no one else really needs to know, unless yer into self-glorification, rather than effect.

And now, to a serious point you'd damned well BETTER understand.

I highly suggest before you take any action at all, you take a good, long, hard look at Iraq - this is what happens when you try to force 'freedom' down on people who were unwilling to TAKE it for themselves... chaos, bloodshed, anarchy, factionalism.

A.E. Van Voght's "The Weapon Shops of Isher" also illustrates this issue and what can be done when a people are unwilling to throw out a corrupt regime.

You can not, and should not, try to force freedom or a change of established order down upon folks who are unwilling or unable to stir themselves from their comfortable little lives to do it themselves - they do not want it, will not keep it, and will resent you for bringing it to their attention when they're trying so damned hard to ignore it.

If you wanna actually make changes, be smart about it, bend the ear of someone with enough power to effect them, rather than trying to raise rowdy with an apathetic and powerless mob who's primary annoyance is gonna be at you, and not the establishment.

I don't often hand out advice, but in this case, it seemed appropriate.

-Frem

PS- Damn good movie tho, that DVD goes beside my Firefly DVDs on the top shelf, and there's no better comment on it's quality than that.

FLETCH2

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:52 PM

You know what? If you don't like it well in 2 years you'll get the chance to change it without killing anyone. In fact you can make a start at changing it this year. Round up your family and friends, seriously research the canidates on both sides and support the one most likely to represent you well in government.

WHOME

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:56 PM

Calls to violence are not protected by free speech laws. (Acceptable: The government stinks, so let's change it. Not Acceptable: The government stinks, so lets get some guns and start shootin'.) Consider editing your post. Or getting some serious anger management and impulse control therapy.

There are lots of ways to "overthrow" a government. I saw a news report on the changing state of Belarus wherein a young Belorussian man explained that he thought the revolution in his country would be economic, rather than political or military. If you don't like the way your government governs, try organizing citizens to vote for someone else, run for office, print your own publication, do SOMETHING besides encouraging violence. Aside form putting yourself on Homeland Security's radar screen (Hi guys! How's the war on "terror" going? We winning yet?), you're making people think you're a little crazy.

WHOME

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:58 PM

Quote:
That's true. Why just today...and don't tell anybody you heard this from me...my fellow prosecutors and I conspired with several City police detectives to have lunch at a very good and inexpensive local Mexican resturant. They have actual SMD (Salsa of Mass Destruction).

I was once involved with a conspiracy to move beer from one place to another. It was very exciting.

HERO

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoMe:
Quote:
That's true. Why just today...and don't tell anybody you heard this from me...my fellow prosecutors and I conspired with several City police detectives to have lunch at a very good and inexpensive local Mexican resturant. They have actual SMD (Salsa of Mass Destruction).

I was once involved with a conspiracy to move beer from one place to another. It was very exciting.

For the record, the 'Lunchtime Conspiracy' was very successful. Our low-priced, high-quality Mexican food was very good and no Mexicans were injured (or deported) during the search for SMD.

H

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
You know what? If you don't like it well in 2 years you'll get the chance to change it without killing anyone. In fact you can make a start at changing it this year. Round up your family and friends, seriously research the canidates on both sides and support the one most likely to represent you well in government.

Bwahaahahahaha, *cough* hahahahah!

"both"

As in, snivelling little useless, halfass socialista doormats or theocratic facist nutjobs, both of which it's impossible to do any actual research on cause not a one of either has told anything even vaguely resembling the truth in over 100 years.

"both"
*snicker*

I know third parties ain't got what it takes at this point in time, but helping make them viable would be a whole lot smarter choice than the fiction of choice presented to us by a two party system when neither party is worth a damned thing.

I am also amused by the absolute and unacceptable level of stupidity and/or ignorance in some other replies.

Fact - Violence does work as a tool of revolution, you think our forefathers were acting "within the law" when they committed an outright act of treason against the crown ?

Fact - Sometimes it does indeed come to that, go actually read some history, every time any attempt at social change has been made within our borders, the bonus march, civil rights, the confederacy, unions, protests, and have acted within the law, what has resulted in every case ?

Violence - usually instituted by the powers that be, against those who were acting within the law.

Read some of the history of unions within this country, and you'll realize that one of the reasons they're weak and ineffective is because every tactic they used that DID work, was quickly outlawed, and because they were unwilling to respond in kind to violence against them.

I'm not advocating it, just annoyed by naive ignorance - would you have advocated staying 'within the law' to slaves in 1859 ?
Think they'd have gotten very far with it in the social climate and culture of the times ?

THINK, for crying out loud, please.

Quote:
Originally posted by WHOME
Calls to violence are not protected by free speech laws.

Tell that to Ann Coulter, or Pat Robertson, or any other hate-spouter of *ANY* stripe on the radio or internet, most of whom drone on and on about it without any fear of the jackboots kicking in their doors.

So is it really free speech ? or is it just free for certain special people, or what ?

Constitutionally, yes, it *IS* free and protected speech to call upon your brethren to take up arms, in fact, if one would go READ the damned thing instead of spouting spoon-fed legal distortions of it, one would almost say at a certain point it's not just 'free speech' but downright *required* by the document, as the highest law of the land.

Whether that point is now (and I do not believe so, not just yet....) or not is a matter of opinion and perception, but the document itself, as well as the federalist/antifederalist papers (the working notes of the constitution, more or less) is abundantly clear on that issue.

Free Speech is Free Speech, that means puttin up with folks spouting stuff ya don't agree with, which has seemed to slip right by most folks these days.. you won't hear me callin for someone to apply some duct-tape to Ann Coulter or Pat Robertsons mouth, they got every right to say what they please - cause in order to demand that right for myself, to demand that it be *universal*, it means I must then accept that others can do so, too.

S'what free speech is all about, and some folks seem to have forgotten that.

-Frem

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