It's time.

POSTED BY: Jonus
UPDATED: Monday, March 27, 2006 00:25
VIEWED: 15488
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REAVERMAN

Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:33 PM

I agree with Jonus that there are some serious problems with the way our government is run, but sometimes you are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. If Jonus' proposed revolution came to fruition tomorrow, ya know what we would have? Utter chaos. Americans are far from a unified people. If the government collapsed, litterally all hell would break loose.
With 15,000+ nuclear weopons in storage or active readiness around the nation, how long do you think it will be before some band of extreme leftists grab a nuke or ten and decide to get rid of the bible belt? Or a group of extreme rightists gets one and decides to annihilate New York City because it's a "blue state"? Worst case scenario, total racial warfare erupts in urban areas across the country. Imagine the death and devastation if entire races started slaughtering each other in the streets. At the very least, the extremists from both ends of the political spectrum would start shooting each other with the moderate majority caught in the crossfire, unable to decide on what to do. Meanwhile, nations like China would quickly seize this as an opportunity to stage a "police action" which would leave us truly oppressed. You think we're oppressed now, but look at the Chinese. You(Jonus would be dragged from your home, interrogated, quite possibly tortured, then shot as a traitor. The simple fact that you are still breathing is proof enough that we are not an oppressed people. The only really valid course of action left to people like us who want to change things is to use the institutions already in place to do it legally. It is an extremely slow process because of how entrenched the system is, but it can be done if only people find the patience to go through with it.

FLETCH2

Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:23 PM

I was thinking recently about the differences between the movie and the V for Vendetta comic book. In the comic neither the government or V were especially pure. V's motives where principly revenge and a craving for anarchy while the Fascist government saw itself as the saviors of the people. Each saw themselves as the good guys, each were polar opposites, tyrany vs anarcy and neither would be any sane person's choice as a form of political system.

RIVER6213

Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
I believe I know the purpose of my life. It is to overthrow the government. How did I figure this?

I saw V for Vendetta on Saturday and heard the story of Guy Fawkes and his plan to blow up parliament and in the process kill the king. It struck a chord and deeply inspired me and I have NEVER been so inspired by anything in my life. I've lived my whole life being a fucking couch potato, but I've always hated the government and any man who thinks he's better than another man. Complacent with the shit that goes on. Playing video games all day and watching movies to escape the shit of the world. Working jobs I hate and not being appreciated. Now I don’t want to kill the president. I just want to put the government “out of business”. I’ve been wracking my brain thinking of all that’s wrong with the country and thinking of what to do.

I thought of getting everyone to stop paying taxes. Without the people and their support the government can’t exist. They need us. This would take years to take effect. So we keep our fucking money and use violence if necessary. I've become so sick and fucking tired of accepting the world the way it is. It's time the people take back what's theirs. I'll follow God's laws but not some super conservative fuck who justifies his actions in the name of God.

I can't do it alone. I need everyone. We can take back everything and give it back to the people.

WE ARE NOT FREE. BUT WE CAN BE. It's time to stop being complacent. ACT NOW.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.

Now this is what I call a motivated man! You have courage, but don't be too surprised when the guys in black suits and cars stamped "Secret service" show up in front of your house.

River

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:39 AM

Jonus,

Quote:
Don't know if you're just being sarcastic or not. If you're being truthful then thanks. I need people with courage like yours.

Oops. I hadn't considered the posibility that it was sarcasm, sure, Sorry, it was probably sarcasm.

Quote:
Next phases: Stop voting for a leader. The USA is the "free world" and yet we have a RULER. Does that sound right to you?

Absolutely. It says so in the consitution. The constitution is not just the founding document of this country, it is based on the constitution of the five nations, the binding oath which from oral tradition became a document and heavily influenced the founding fathers.

The reality is, America is not a chaos set up by white people. That would be Australia. America is an entity into which we immigrated in large numbers. The consitution in its present form is very much a reflection of the consitution as it existed when we came. Point being, it's the law of the land, as it was before we, our ancestors, immigrated here. It is not ours to change.

Quote:
Start boycotting. Oil and whatever else we buy that supports our government and other governments.

This is what you can do in a free society. More effective than a boycott would be to work on alternative energies.

Quote:
To the other posts:

I knew I would run into people like you. You're afraid of being persecuted. You're too complacent. You fear authority and change. WE DESERVE BETTER.

God never said not to act with violence. He said "Don't kill."

Actually I believe it was litteral thou shalt not commit murder. God was into genocide.

But you're really well and truly missing the point.

Fear persecution?

How about this: We believe in the system. You are threatening the system. You are rising up in opposition to us.

Sure, we should have better leadership than Bush. And we have a system, many actually, for getting rid of him. He could be impeached, imprisoned, forced to resign, voted out of office, or through the course of legal action the union could be dissolved.

In all cases, the law of the land is quite likely to remain. The constitution, the founding document of not only this union, but all 50 of its states, will continue to guide us, as will the Declaration of Independence. If you has cited the DoI imperative to throw off unjust rule and had used it as a pretext to start a course seeking legal action to disolve the union, your response would have been different.

But, if we do as you suggest, and abandon the constitution, then we open up to the possibility of abject tyranny. The new rule, even leaderless rule, might be a communist oligarchy, regardless of what you intend. Remember, it was not Lenin who overthrew the Czar, it was Kerensky. Once the old order is gone, the new order will be replaced by another new order until there is one which is strong and cannot be defeated. This new power of iron will cannot guarantee the level of checks and balances that this current system has. I look around the globe and I can see no system which is more equitable and fair to its people and more allowing of control and condemnation of its leadership, then this one, so I choose to defend it.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn:

And a fruitcake is born.

I think we're probably more alike then we'd care to admit. I actually originally posted something very similar. I believe it went something like this: "Bring out the tin foil hats"

But then I went back and edited and wrote the post you saw. I thought that maybe it was better to talk him out of it before he got shipped to guantanamo, or hurt someone.

Really, I'm glad whenever a couch potato wakes up to the fact that he's the one doing nothing and allowing evil to flourish, but they tend to be overanxious when you first wake them up.

But before we just give him the blue pill, maybe he can stop and think about it before deciding on a course of action.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:51 AM

Quote:
Not me. I’ll be doing the monitoring. I’ve been implanted to infiltrate and observe the highly dangerous Browncoat organization.

Ah, but what you don't realize is that when your boys at army threat assessment sent you on this dangerous mission, they began monitoring you. How many times has he watched each episode? Did the fact that he watch the train job or ariel multiple times indicate that he's gone over to the other side?

We see it all the time, infiltrate, stockholm syngrome, lead the rebel group to victory, become a tin-plated dictator. Just as long as you don't cancel our shows, we'll be happy.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:57 AM

Hardware,

That was the very quote I was hoping he would come up with. But I said that already, and of course the founding father were aware that what they were committing was treason, but it was treason against a government they did not recognize. But if they did that, they would do what Washington did, and succeed. In order to do that, they would first need to support people to office in their own state, and seek that legal proceding.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:59 AM

Reaverman,

That was a terrific analysis of what would unfold. You should write science fiction.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
I was thinking recently about the differences between the movie and the V for Vendetta comic book. In the comic neither the government or V were especially pure. V's motives where principly revenge and a craving for anarchy while the Fascist government saw itself as the saviors of the people. Each saw themselves as the good guys, each were polar opposites, tyrany vs anarcy and neither would be any sane person's choice as a form of political system.

That was the impression I got too. It was evident that the methods used by V to achieve his goals were essentially identical to those used by the government he opposed; only the goals differed. And it is really quite an open question as to whether anarchy was any better then fascism. Unfortunately, the movie muddied this aspect, and instead depicted V as a superhero, thereby obscuring the theme of the book.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:34 AM

And besides, "the government" isn't your biggest problem. It's those corporations. You think you'd have freedom in global-uber-corporatism? Try cleaning up the environment, or working at a meaningful job for reasonable pay, or getting Firefly back on TV. Oh yeah little man, try rising up against that. All of the big decisions are out of your hands. BUT, you get to choose from 40 different kinds of toilet paper! Now ain't that swell???

From the lofty heights of corporate boards, we are as ants, with one colony pitted against another for the benefit of a few. And unlike democracy, which at least has the theoretical input of its members (until it's corrupted money) you have no way of moving those giants. You can withold your taxes fro the gov, but you still gotta pay at the gas pump. It may be that political democracy is our best weapon against economic tyranny. So who'd want to get rid of that?

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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