Windows Linux or Mac?
POSTED BY: Haze
UPDATED: Saturday, April 8, 2006 06:42
VIEWED: 42858
PAGE 5 of 20
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
I should have said I run Windows exclusively at home. I still had to support it at work to some extent until two years ago. I still provide technical help to family members who run it. I still have to work with UNIX/Windows and Linux/Windows interoperability issues. So... I do have experience with every version of Windows out there. (Yes, I am an IT professional.)
What you're saying to me is "I only see the problems that happen with Windows XP".
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Windows is horrible on pretty much every level. Stability is better than it once was, especially in Server 2003, but it's still terrible.
On a server, yes it's terrible considering a server is supposed to stay online for months at a time. But you and I both know Windows isn't particularly meant to be a server; it's PC for Mr. and Mrs. common-Man.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Memory leakage problems still abound.
Memory leaks from software that's written from 3rd party vendors. Hardly MS's fault, and you know it. Those problems occur when people like you and me stop caring about what they're writing (assuming your field of IT is programming, as mine is)
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Virii, trojans, worms, and spyware, oh my!
And why would that be? Would that be because 90% of the world is on a windows box? If I'm a hacker, and I want to do as much damage as possible, I'm clearly going to target the majority; plain and simple.
This issue keeps coming up again and again, but the answer is simple: EVERY plain old windows user sets themselves up as administrator (aka: root). The problem is far more the fault of the user who doesn't particularly know better.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Microsoft's attitude towards security is still cavalier at best.
Not with service pack 2, no. They finally said "to hell with crappy programs", and prevented particularly unsecure ones from running at all. It doesn't solve everything, but it sure fixed a lot.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
The Apple Aqua (Mac OSX) desktop and KDE in the Linux world are both far superior and far more customizable UIs than what Windows offers.
That's a moot point, considering windows has never been about the customization of the UI.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Need I go on? I can, you know.
As could I. Perhaps the debate on software compatibility? The issue of user ease, which is the whole point of home OS's?
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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Quote:
Originally posted by sneaker98:Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
What you're saying to me is "I only see the problems that happen with Windows XP".
No, I see major problems with every version of Windows released to date.Quote:
But you and I both know Windows isn't particularly meant to be a server; it's PC for Mr. and Mrs. common-Man.
Neither a Mac no a Linux-based PC with one of the better, full-featured, easy to use distros (i.e.: Mandrive, Ubuntu, Fedora) is harder for Mr. or Mrs. common man. If my mother (a 69 year old retired professor with no technical background) found Linux no harder to use and a solution to problems and grief Windows bugs were causing her then pretty much anyone can make the switch. FWIW, on her Toshiba laptop running XP meant random shutdowns, especially when printing. On Linux that same Toshiba laptop, which claims to be designed for XP, is flawless.Quote:
Memory leaks from software that's written from 3rd party vendors. Hardly MS's fault
Since when are bugs in Internet Explorer, for example, not Microsoft's fault?Quote:
And why would that be? Would that be because 90% of the world is on a windows box? If I'm a hacker, and I want to do as much damage as possible, I'm clearly going to target the majority; plain and simple.
Dead wrong. Microsoft is only 42% of the server market and servers are the richest target that do the most damage. Windows security (or lack thereof) is a joke and Windows is an easier target.Quote:
Not with service pack 2, no. They finally said "to hell with crappy programs", and prevented particularly unsecure ones from running at all. It doesn't solve everything, but it sure fixed a lot.
There are still critical flaws reported and Microsoft takes days to fix them.Quote:
That's a moot point, considering windows has never been about the customization of the UI.
That is a major deficiency for a desktop OS, IMHO.Quote:
As could I. Perhaps the debate on software compatibility? The issue of user ease, which is the whole point of home OS's?
None of which would change anything. Most home users who are on Windows are there because they don't know better.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
No, I see major problems with every version of Windows released to date.
No... you missed my point. If you're supporting Windows, as you say, you're only seeing what goes wrong with windows. You're not seeing the plethora of folks who have no problem at all. Why would you? They're not bugging you to fix anything.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Neither a Mac no a Linux-based PC with one of the better, full-featured, easy to use distros (i.e.: Mandrive, Ubuntu, Fedora) is harder for Mr. or Mrs. common man. If my mother (a 69 year old retired professor with no technical background) found Linux no harder to use and a solution to problems and grief Windows bugs were causing her then pretty much anyone can make the switch. FWIW, on her Toshiba laptop running XP meant random shutdowns, especially when printing. On Linux that same Toshiba laptop, which claims to be designed for XP, is flawless.
I'll bet she didn't install Linux all by herself (which is pretty much my entire point). That's the kicker, and something Linux needs to catch up on. They're ridiculously annoying to set up, especially if you have unsupported hardware (and, considering the sheer number of hardware out there, that's pretty damn likely).
Ever tried to install a new video card using linux? I had a hell of a time with it, and I'm not exactly new at this.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Since when are bugs in Internet Explorer, for example, not Microsoft's fault?
Since when does IE have a memory leak? It doesn't that I recall, though it is a bit of a memory hog.
If you're referring to "bugs" and not the leak your point was originally about, most of them are caused by third party plugins and modifications. aka: lazy programmers.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
Dead wrong. Microsoft is only 42% of the server market and servers are the richest target that do the most damage. Windows security (or lack thereof) is a joke and Windows is an easier target.
I'm not talking about servers; I'm talking about desktops. Did I not make that clear enough? The issue was about spyware, trojans, etc., which is a far greater adversary to a desktop than a server (in most cases, anyway).
A little bedtime reading for you regarding your beloved linux and its "airtight" security: http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/bulletins/SB2005.html
It's what happens when you get an uncoordinated community, often at each others throats, programming a bunch of addons.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
There are still critical flaws reported and Microsoft takes days to fix them.
And flaws are fixed instantly over linux, eh? You're striving for a silly point here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
That is a major deficiency for a desktop OS, IMHO.
Some folks don't want to fiddle with the UI beyond changing the colours and whatnot. Mr. and Mrs. Everyday-PC-User, perhaps. Quite frankly, I don't have the time for it myself.
Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
None of which would change anything. Most home users who are on Windows are there because they don't know better.
They're there because that's what's supported, and it's easy. Which is the point in a home OS.
The problem with Mac's is that it's their way or the highway. You get a bundle made exclusively by them, or nothing. This spits in the face of the last 15 years of PC history regarding third parties, in my humble opinion.
The problem with Linux is ease of use. It's fine if you don't change anything and have a certified fellow install it for you; but what if you want to do something beyond browse the net and type in a wordprocessor? And heck, the utter lack of software support makes it a clear loser to those who don't want to have to worry about wether this piece of software is going to work on this distro or not!
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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I love my Mac. I think so daily. Never moreso than when I run into one of these discussion threads where you unfortunate PC owners share your expertise on how to unf^&ck a cranky PC you've just wasted your whole weekend with your head under the engine of, or been on hold for hours with some phone tech, trying to defrag or upgrade with crappy buggy third-rate software. (Sorry, I get all growly about the Microsoft evil empire. Bill's ethic pisses me off. I don't do business with companies whose ethics piss me off.)
I turn it on, it works. It never freezes, crashes, has temper tantrums, no magic smoke, no incompatable soft. I don't get virally infected, ever. Can you imagine? Not ever. No uninvited email either. I don't ever need to spend one minute figuring out what's wrong with my 'puter. I want new soft, more RAM, I click it in, I'm guided by voices, well, ok, little text boxes, thru the installation process. No problems ever. Photoshop? Painting programs? vector drawing, design, iMovie, Garage Band, iDVD on and on, it will let me do anything, everything, without messing around figuring out how to get from A-B. It's a dream to run. OSX Tiger and Photoshop CS2 are completely, beautifully searchable by keyword, so if I forget where I left my carkeys for crying out loud, I can find them with my Mac. I figure the time I save not needing to mess with my Mac has more than paid the difference between my machine and any souped up PC you care to flaunt.
I love my Mac.
Oh, yeah, free downloadable soft upgrades, limo service and breakfast in bed. More time to enjoy life. Are you converted yet?
Aztecs used the term firefly metaphorically, meaning a spark of knowledge in a world of ignorance or darkness.
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Well, I hate to tell you this Liminalosity, but a Mac is just another version of a PC. It's susceptible to everything a Windows PC is. The difference is, right now, nobody who can do any damage cares about the OSX. Maybe if it becomes a larger market, but that's still not looking too likely.
Quote:
Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
trying to defrag
Windows has a handly little defrag program that's just one or two clicks. Norton has an even better one. If you're saying that Mac's aren't ever going to fragment their harddrive, guess again!
Quote:
Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
or upgrade with crappy buggy third-rate software
And that crappy,third rate software will hit the Apple, provided it ever becomes a larger market share. You can't blame Microsoft because some lazy programmers in some other company gave Windows a bad name.
Quote:
Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
(Sorry, I get all growly about the Microsoft evil empire. Bill's ethic pisses me off. I don't do business with companies whose ethics piss me off.)
That evil empire also saved Apple from bankruptcy.
Quote:
Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
no incompatable soft
Because you haven't run across something that wont work on the Mac. I'm guessing you don't play many games?
Quote:
Originally posted by LIMINALOSITY:
I figure the time I save not needing to mess with my Mac has more than paid the difference between my machine and any souped up PC you care to flaunt.
Lets just say that the easy time I've had with my windows box has been equivalent to your experience on a Mac. I don't remember the last time I've had a BSOD, nor any kind of outright crash. With SP2, Norton AntiVirus, and me not being an idiot on the internet, I haven't had any spyware or a virus in ages. My PC is custom to exactly what I wanted in a gaming machine, something you can't do on an Apple.
From what I hear about the OSX, it's the silky smooth OS for those who don't want to mess with anything ever. Nor want to play any games. That's fine, but that's really not for me. I don't want someone to give me an oddly shaped white box and tell me what the heck is in there; I want to put what I want in my desktop computer.
"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds
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Been a Linux geek for years, but I've been using Windows on my Dell Inspiron laptop because Linux doesn't play that nice with laptops, it's more of a server OS.
This laptop has been slowly withering away, however. USB controller dies randomly, the touch-screen doesn't work (forcing me to use a USB mouse, not too convenient when the USB controller randomly craps out as mentioned above). About a third of the CDs I burn get ruined, etc.
By the end of this week I will be the proud owner of a MacBook Pro, customized with an extra gig of RAM. And it will be good...
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Hey Sneaker... I do know a Mac isn't immune to fragmentation, they just don't much. Maybe some day some hacker will write poison for Macs, probably not unless they get a much bigger market share.
Yeah, I'm not much of a gamer, it's true. I've played some, but I'd much rather aim a pebble, pool cue, bow and arrow or a real gun at a target than play any pixelated game I've ever seen. I'm a painter/photog and I am amazed at the ease with which the art programs run on my Mac. Photoshop is as deep and wide as the ocean. You can sail on it, fish in it, dive in it, swim in it, and never get bored, because there's always something new to do. That's what I want my 'puter to do best - be slick and supportive of my work, and find me the one I named 'Paperdoll Karen' when I can't remember where I put it, allow mw to write, read on the net, make DVDs, give me searchable email, and all of this without needing to be a programmer. Glad you like yours for what you do as much as I like mine for what I do. I hear lots from folks who wish they didn't need to know so much about how to mess with a PC in order to just use it.
Aztecs used the term firefly metaphorically, meaning a spark of knowledge in a world of ignorance or darkness.
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It's all very complicated...*
Windows: Children
Linux: Men
Mac: Women
-or-
Windows: Homo Habilis
Linux: Homo Sapien
Mac: Homo Sexual
-or-
Windows: Ford Taurus
Linux: Delorian (yes, the one from Back to the Future)
Mac: VW Jetta
-or-
Windows: Mrs. Howell
Linux: MaryAnn
Mac: Ginger
-or-
Windows: Budweiser
Linux: Microbrew
Mac: Corona
-or-
Windows: Christianity
Linux: Cryptozoology
Mac: Judao-Buddhism
-or-
Windows: Miranda
Linux: Persephone
Mac: Osiris
-or-
Windows: MTV
Linux: BBC
Mac: NPR
-or-
Windows: Bile
Linux: Juice of Safu
Mac: Water of Life
-or-
Windows: Kenny G.
Linux: They Might be Giants
Mac: Stevie Winwood
-or-
Windows: Steel Magnolias
Linux: The Matrix
Mac: Terms of Endearment
-or-
Windows: Chihuahua
Linux: Wolf
Mac: Poodle
-or-
Windows: Folgers' instant
Linux: Fair Trade/Shade Grown/Organic
Mac: Starbucks
*The BSDs aren't mentioned as they exist in a rarified stratum way above this brand of silliness ;]
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That was....entertaining to say the least.
I loves me my Mac!!! Never'd do windows.
While I hear people who have Macs talking about how they love them all the time, and people who use windows saying they hate macs all the time, I was just curious if any of you have ever heard a windows user talk about how they had switched over from mac and absolutely love it?
-e
"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."
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HAZE,
Am currently working with GIMP, after an entire day lost with Adobe buttheads. One so-called tech who turned out to be a salesman gave me wrong info on a trial version of Photoshop Elements (nearly 4 hours of download on DSL), which caused me to reinstall it, which voided the trial. I could therefore not even try it after all that time. When I asked another Adobe salesperson about it, I was told it's Adobe policy to NOT LET USERS KNOW that if they install, then uninstall and reinstall trial softwear it WON'T WORK. That attitude SUCKS. Earlier that day I did get one Adobe saleswoman who really knew her stuff, but after two hours we still could not make it work...unless I bought it.
So I went for the GIMP. It appears to be a very powerful program, and will do everything I need it to do. So thanks, Haze, for the tip.
STDOUBT, Very clever trilogies.
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