Any atheists in here?
POSTED BY: BlackCollarBrowncoat
UPDATED: Sunday, March 12, 2006 20:19
VIEWED: 38267
PAGE 18 of 18
THANKS !!
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
First we got the Bomb and that was good
'Cause we like peace and... motherhood
Then Russia got the Bomb, but that's okay,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way.
Who's next?
Then France got the Bomb, but but don't you grieve That they're on our side (I believe)
Then China got the Bomb, but have no fears
'Cause they can't wipe us out for at least five years!
Who's next?
Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right!
One for the black and one for the white.
Who's next?
Egypt's gonna get one too, just to use on you-know-who.
So Israel's getting tense, wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd" says the Psalm, but JUST IN CASE...
We're gonna get a Bomb!
Luxembourg is next to go,
Then after that is Monaco.
We'll try and stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the Bomb!
Not much has changed- has it???
---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hotpoint
Before I even read all of your post I'd like to know something. You claim it is possible to prove that god exists. Would you care to explain how?
If god came up and had a chat with you would that prove that god exists? If that is all it takes I can point to quite a few people who will tell you god did just that.
If you died and then met a glowing being would that prove god exists? It wouldn't in my book. There absolutely no reason to assume that life after death in itself has anything to do with god, and glowing stuff is hardly godliness.
There is one verified case in which Mary came to some kids in a hallucination (well the word used is "vision" but I prefer my version) and told them that in a specific place at a specific time on a specific day there would be a miracle.
Sure enough the sky changed colors and the sun bounced around in the sky like a ping pong ball.
Daytime auroras are very, very rare (quick research turned up only two in the past 400 years, there are probably more though) and the atmospheric inversions required to make the sun appear to bounce around like that are quite rare as well. Obviously it would only appear to do that from certain angles, which makes it even more unlikely because even if the hallucination had randomly gotten the time right if the location wrong the thing wouldn't have worked right.
But it is hardly proof of god. I mean if simply having a vision say, "Go there and you will receive a sign," and then having a sign appear there and then were enough to prove the existence of a god we would all believe in god without hesitation several times over.
Obviously we don't.
So what would it take? You seem very intent on claiming that it is possible to prove that god exists, but you don't seem to want to back it up. Why not? I mean if it can be proved than by definition there must be a way to prove it. Unlike most things in this thread there is no place for debate on this point. If something can be proved there has to be a way to prove it, and for it to be valid that way is supposed to be agreed upon before the proof takes place.
If you are right then there must be an example.
But what is it? I mean the good old fashioned miracles don’t work anymore.
Virgin birth isn't impossible, as time goes on we find more and more species, even warm blooded ones, that do it on a semi-regular basis and on probability if we wait long enough it should happen at least once in humans. Even virgin birth of a male child is hardly impossible (just very, very unlikely as most XXYs can't have children and if one did give unfertilized birth it could very well be an XXY itself or even an XX.)
Coming back from the dead isn't a big deal these days. A kid around here was dead for a full two hours and didn't even suffer brain damage.
We've seen the ground rise into the sky, we've seen it rain rocks, we've seen the sun go out, we've the "fires of hell" create rivers of flame that destroy everything in their path. And that's just with volcanoes.
The moon turns to blood every lunar eclipse and the stars fall from the sky at regular intervals.
The ocean rises up, the earth shakes, and people heal others with their hands on national television while doctors tell us about the placebo effect.
There are no miracles left in the world and even if something did happen that somehow seemed like an act of god (can't imagine what it would be) as is well known everything falls under the heading of science. It would be studied and explained and there would be no need to bring god into the equation even if it came with a signature that said, "God did this."
-
I personally can think of no possible situation that would prove the existence of any god I have ever heard of.
But obviously you can, so tell me, please, what would it take? If god can be proved, which you claim repeatedly, how can it be done?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
This is irksome.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
First we got the Bomb and that was good
'Cause we like peace and... motherhood
Then Russia got the Bomb, but that's okay,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way.
Who's next?
Then France got the Bomb, but but don't you grieve That they're on our side (I believe)
Then China got the Bomb, but have no fears
'Cause they can't wipe us out for at least five years!
Who's next?
Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right!
One for the black and one for the white.
Who's next?
Egypt's gonna get one too, just to use on you-know-who.
So Israel's getting tense, wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd" says the Psalm, but JUST IN CASE...
We're gonna get a Bomb!
Luxembourg is next to go,
Then after that is Monaco.
We'll try and stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the Bomb!
Not much has changed- has it???
---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.
That was my second choice of song to post
Buuuuut I'm very off topic so I'll stop now
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Hotpoint
Before I even read all of your post I'd like to know something. You claim it is possible to prove that god exists. Would you care to explain how?
Well one possible way to prove the existance of a God would be if science discovered that life required a creator. Or another might be if there was something intrinsic to the universe that required with certainty "divine intervention" or it could not take place.
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
If god came up and had a chat with you would that prove that god exists? If that is all it takes I can point to quite a few people who will tell you god did just that.
The problem there would be in that situation I, or the others, could just be insane or the victim of a practical joke. Human senses aren't reliable enough to consider that "proof".
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
If you died and then met a glowing being would that prove god exists? It wouldn't in my book. There absolutely no reason to assume that life after death in itself has anything to do with god, and glowing stuff is hardly godliness.
If the being was glowing I might look for an ethereal fire-extinguisher, or perhaps a Gieger-Counter, but again I could just be nuts.
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
There is one verified case in which Mary came to some kids in a hallucination (well the word used is "vision" but I prefer my version) and told them that in a specific place at a specific time on a specific day there would be a miracle.
Similiar stories are told by pretty much every religion. The thing is it could easily be random chance, after all how many "visions" don't come true?
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
If you are right then there must be an example.
But what is it? I mean the good old fashioned miracles don’t work anymore.
Like I said. If there was a mechanism in the universe that required a creator that would be proof of "God". Otherwise having the almighty appear one day and demonstrate "miracles" under laboratory conditions would be pretty strong evidence in my book.
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
There are no miracles left in the world and even if something did happen that somehow seemed like an act of god (can't imagine what it would be) as is well known everything falls under the heading of science. It would be studied and explained and there would be no need to bring god into the equation even if it came with a signature that said, "God did this."
But there are things that conceivably only a God could do. For instance so-called "Creation Scientists" are always on the look-out for an irreducably complex mechanism in nature that could not have evolved. So far every one they've claimed turns out in fact not to be irreducably complex but that doesn't mean for certain that will always be the case.
Show me something that could not have evolved, or been created by random chance, and I'll believe in a "creator".
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I personally can think of no possible situation that would prove the existence of any god I have ever heard of.
But obviously you can, so tell me, please, what would it take? If god can be proved, which you claim repeatedly, how can it be done?
Do the examples I've given satisfy you because I can find more readily enough?
Proving the Non-Existance of a God is certainly not possible however. For one thing even if there were some theoretical evidence (although I can't think of anything that might fit the bill) it could always be argued that an omniscient, omnipotent God faked the evidence himself to sort out the sceptics from the faithful.
...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I know i'm kinda going off topic on the whole God vs. No god disscussion, but back to the top:
Mal is a christian (at least 6 years ago he was), just before he goes to take out the AA gun, and the airplane thing, he pulls out a cross necklace, kisses the cross and then goes into battle :)
He also mentions God quite a lot throughout the show.
Joss seemed to have put quite a lot of "God" into the show. We have Book for one example (even though he may be something else )
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Before I even read all of your post I'd like to know something. You claim it is possible to prove that god exists. Would you care to explain how?
Get your deity to show up. Prove his omnipotence, omnicience and general creatorness, and make a legal testimony as to his opinions, wishes and endorsements. It's not any more trouble for him than not showing up. If you can't get God to do it, well, that's the problem of the theist, not the atheist.
Simple tests of godhood
Snap fingers, all sickness vanishes from the world and permanent world peace and the end of poverty.
(Wouldn't a loving god do that in the first place anyway?)
Quote:
There is one verified case in which Mary came to some kids in a hallucination (well the word used is "vision" but I prefer my version) and told them that in a specific place at a specific time on a specific day there would be a miracle.
Sure enough the sky changed colors and the sun bounced around in the sky like a ping pong ball.
Daytime auroras are very, very rare (quick research turned up only two in the past 400 years, there are probably more though) and the atmospheric inversions required to make the sun appear to bounce around like that are quite rare as well. Obviously it would only appear to do that from certain angles, which makes it even more unlikely because even if the hallucination had randomly gotten the time right if the location wrong the thing wouldn't have worked right.
Much more likely someone claimed the vision afterwards and a ton of people who want to believe backed them up.
Quote:
But what is it? I mean the good old fashioned miracles don’t work anymore.
People were ignorant of science at the time, and much simpler. The same exact events wouldn't wash today as a miracle were they to happen. They simply don't exist
Quote:
Virgin birth isn't impossible, as time goes on we find more and more species, even warm blooded ones, that do it on a semi-regular basis and on probability if we wait long enough it should happen at least once in humans
Evidence please. I think you'll find that there's nothing miraculous about it.
Quote:
Joss seemed to have put quite a lot of "God" into the show. We have Book for one example (even though he may be something else )
For the record, Joss is an atheist, which is the reason why he's so good at writing religious characters :)
As his officially endorsed High Priest(no, reallY, see me in the new Done The Impossible documentary), I invite you all to join the Church of Joss, and accept him as your personal savior of quality filmed entertainment. Our God is real, makes many public appearances, and is most importantly funny :)
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME