any christians here in this entire site please stand up
POSTED BY: leelu7777
UPDATED: Monday, September 22, 2025 14:45
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Of course the bible is the Hebrew version of the event, so just as the Egyptians not mentioning it could be the result of them wanting to cover up a great defeat the Hebrew version may be making a bigger deal of this than the Egyptians did. So a few 100 Hebrews leaving could become 1000's on retelling, an event of great significance if you were decended from one of those people but probably not worth mentioning if you were Egyptian.
A friend of mine was very well versed in Celtic myths and the interesting thing is that a LOT of them are actually derivations of ancient greek myths possibly brought north by traders, bards or maybe when the Celts were forced north by the Romans. So some Irish myths never happened in Ireland to Irishmen at all, they were Greek stories "Irishised."
It's quite possible that a few hundred folks from Egypt remingled with others in Israel and passed their story along. It becoming the Tribe and then the people's story, even though it never happened to the majority of them.
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Fletch:
That's kind of what I was trying to say. Thanks, you put it better.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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Quote:Show me a source that deviates from it.
Originally posted by citizen:
Well if this is true your playing favorites with the Exodus. It must be correct and where other sources deviate they must be wrong or 'covered up'. But you know, rubbish what I'm saying any way you wish.
So far what I see is the Exodus account.
The Eruption of Santorini, which supports the Exodus account.
Linguistic evidence that suggest that Hebrews lived in Egypt, which may support the Exodus account.
The Ipuwer papyrus (the only Egyptian account that I’m aware of) which supports the Exodus account.
The only account that you seem to be claiming deviates from the Exodus account is the one that evidently was never made.
Quote:Show me where I said this.
Originally posted by citizen:
The Old Testament account and the Torah account are essentially the same source, but you were saying they are sources that support each other. Of course they do, they're the same source.
Quote:That’s a likely possibility. And if you assume that the Hebrews fled following or as a result of the eruption of Mt. Thera then it becomes an even more likely possibility that the Egyptians just had more important things to worry about then a bunch of runaway slaves.
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Of course the bible is the Hebrew version of the event, so just as the Egyptians not mentioning it could be the result of them wanting to cover up a great defeat the Hebrew version may be making a bigger deal of this than the Egyptians did. So a few 100 Hebrews leaving could become 1000's on retelling, an event of great significance if you were decended from one of those people but probably not worth mentioning if you were Egyptian.
Although I think it probably was thousands of slaves that escaped, but I don't think there is any way to know for sure.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cuhmal:
Show me where I said this.
Quote:
And we mustn't forget The Exodus which also places the Hebrews in Egypt and is certainly as valid a historical text as any other.
[[]followed by a link to a document discussing the Torah, when we're talking about the Exedus from the Bible[]]
The Exodus from the Torah which ALSO places the Hebrews in egypt. We were talking about the Bibles acount, you brought up the Torah account as if it was a seperate source.
Quote:
The Eruption of Santorini, which supports the Exodus account.
No it doesn't. It supports that there was a Tsunami and a dust cloud that could attribute to parts of the Exodus story.
Quote:
Linguistic evidence that suggest that Hebrews lived in Egypt, which may support the Exodus account.
Linguistic evidence you still haven't even attempted to provide.
Quote:
The Ipuwer papyrus (the only Egyptian account that I’m aware of) which supports the Exodus account.
So one minute your saying that the Egyptian account is trying to cover up through admission, the next your saying it supports it. Which is it Finn?
Quote:
The only account that you seem to be claiming deviates from the Exodus account is the one that evidently was never made.
I'll get to this tomorrow, it's 1am here.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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Quote:I apologize for the confusion, but I must admit I didn’t expect you to assume that I was talking about two different sources. Exodus is Exodus whether it’s printed in the Bible, the Torah or Time magazine.
Originally posted by citizen:
The Exodus from the Torah which ALSO places the Hebrews in egypt. We were talking about the Bibles acount, you brought up the Torah account as if it was a seperate source.
Quote:Thereby supporting the Exodus account.
Originally posted by citizen:
No it doesn't. It supports that there was a Tsunami and a dust cloud that could attribute to parts of the Exodus story.
Quote:Linguistic evidence that I’ve already provided. If you’re looking for linguistic scientific journal articles, you’ll have to find them yourself. Please forward them to me if you do.
Originally posted by citizen:
Linguistic evidence you still haven't even attempted to provide.
Quote:You’re the one who claimed there was no Egyptian account, not me. Remember? I was simply pointing out that a lack of an Egyptian Account, as you claimed, does not invalidate the Exodus.
Originally posted by citizen:
So one minute your saying that the Egyptian account is trying to cover up through admission, the next your saying it supports it. Which is it Finn?
This is what you said:
“But before we get over excited about science sort of backing up this one little bit maybe we should remember there's no historical or scientific evidence, at least that I know of, to say the Israelites were ever enslaved within Egypt. Even Egyptian documents of the time make no mention of the event. Did Egyptian scholars just forget about that huge number of slaves making to freedom? Did they forget that the Israelites even existed?”
This is what I said to some up my point (after a few posts):
“My point is that one simply cannot argue that the Exodus was not based on an actual event, simply because there is no Egyptian account of it, because it is quite possible that there wouldn’t be.”
In fact, there is an Egyptian Account and it pretty closely supports the Exodus Account, but that’s not what we were talking about; that’s another story. I don’t know why you thought there was no Egyptian account, but I imagine it might have something to do with playing favorites with the sources. I thought you probably knew about it, which is why I didn’t bring it up. As it turns out there are people who dispute whether the Egyptian account is the same thing event as Exodus, based on the assumption that Exodus occurred during Ramses II, which may or may not be true. But if you legitimately didn’t know about it, then that certainly explains a lot.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Im a Christian, and Im standin up.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Although I think it probably was thousands of slaves that escaped, but I don't think there is any way to know for sure.
Yes, but the reason you think so is that Exodus says so. But that was writen down several generations later.
Let's look at what we know. Joseph is sold as a slave in Egypt and gains a reputation as a seer. He gets employed by Pharoh and eventually invites his family to join him there. Now let's say that by "family" we mean an extended group, a tribe. That is still not every Jew then living not by a very long shot. We then have a break in the narrative that is 100-300 years by which time the decendents of these Jews are no longer welcome in Egypt and are enslaved. Note that this was not like the Babylonians raiding Israel for slaves, this is the Egyptian Jewish population being oppresses. So we have some subset of the entire tribes of Israel actually being effected here. These folks leave and eventually end up in the promised land with what we assume to be those tribes that didn't leave. Over time the returnees pass their story along, and as they marry and mingle it becomes widespread.
Eventually someone writes this tale down, but by then several hundred years have passed almost everyone you would meet would claim to be related to the people that were there. If you do a headcount THEN that is a significant number.
Remember the Stone scene at the end of Schindler's list. He saved very few compared to those that were killed but in time he "saved" thousands of descendents. In 300 years a large number of the world's Jews will have at least one Schindler ancestor. You really do save the world in time.
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Thereby supporting the Exodus account.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Completely unsupported conlusion !!
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Finn- I loked into the links that you posted and didn't see an Egyptian account that prallels Exodus. If you have additional links or info let us know.
---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.
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Over time the returnees pass their story along
Blessed are the cheesemakers ....
Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?
Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
This is the word of god.
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