Real World Event Discussions

any christians here in this entire site please stand up

POSTED BY: leelu7777
UPDATED: Monday, September 22, 2025 14:45
VIEWED: 32293
PAGE 13 of 23

DOFFE

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 12:43 PM

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Get away from it all to a place where things aren’t really all that bad, though not really all that good. Just kind of so-so, like living in Sweden.

I never saw a better description. That's exactly the way it is. But how do You know? Anyway - Thanks!

Keep flying.
Doffe.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 2:14 PM

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Originally posted by rue:
So are you trying to say that no cultures did that kind of thing? Or that the Israelites were advanced beyond their surrounding cultures?

Last century alone, I would imagine, that there were far more people killed by their governments then the entire Bronze Age. Mass murder and fanaticism are not uniquely Bronze Age characteristics. In fact they are, unfortunately, common today.

And maybe Pharaoh Khufu would have done better to put the wealth of Egypt into digging canals, but the pyramids stood for much more then a burial chamber. If all the Egyptians wanted were a burial chamber, they could have just as easily built one out of mud brick, which they frequently did. The Giza Pyramids, for instance, were symbols of the Fourth Dynastic Egyptian might. Maybe Americans would have done better to dig a few canals rather then send a man to the moon. Maybe French could have done without the Eiffel Tower? Maybe my home tome might have done better not to put itself in bankruptcy building some 300 foot rotating restaurant. Yet these things are all symbols of accomplishment and pride, no different then the pyramids, except maybe for shear size.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Did Egyptian scholars just forget about that huge number of slaves making to freedom? Did they forget that the Israelites even existed?

I would imagine that is exactly what they would have wanted to do.

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Originally posted by Doffe:
I never saw a better description. That's exactly the way it is. But how do You know? Anyway - Thanks!

I get around.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CITIZEN

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 2:44 PM

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Originally posted by Finn Mac Cumhal:
I would imagine that is exactly what they would have wanted to do.

Id of thought America would have wanted to expunge Vietnam from the History books, yet you guys have not. The Egyptians were fastidious record keepers; they recorded everything, good or bad. The 'plagues' of Egypt and their effects, including the lawlessness and anarchy of the areas affected, that followed were recorded, so why not the slaves

Frankly Finn you don't get to dismiss the point of why they have no records of the exodus by saying "well they didn't record it because they forgot".

You could argue we haven't found those records yet, but that's not very likely, since the areas of the exodus have been quite well researched.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 2:58 PM

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And maybe Pharaoh Khufu would have done better to put the wealth of Egypt into digging canals, but the pyramids stood for much more then a burial chamber. If all the Egyptians wanted were a burial chamber, they could have just as easily built one out of mud brick, which they frequently did. The Giza Pyramids, for instance, were symbols of the Fourth Dynastic Egyptian might.

And maybe the Egyptians had a less understandable motive than something that sounds an awful lot like modern-day nationalism? How do we know that the pyramids themselves- like Stonhenge and the Anaszi building in Chaco Canyon- weren't some kind of reflection of their cosmology, perhaps a predictor of those all-important floods?

I think if you overlay your viewpoint on ancient cultures you often miss ideas that were so important to them, but relatively unimportant to us now.

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 3:15 PM

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Originally posted by citizen:
Id of thought America would have wanted to expunge Vietnam from the History books, yet you guys have not. The Egyptians were fastidious record keepers; they recorded everything, good or bad. The 'plagues' of Egypt and their effects, including the lawlessness and anarchy of the areas affected, that followed were recorded, so why not the slaves

Frankly Finn you don't get to dismiss the point of why they have no records of the exodus by saying "well they didn't record it because they forgot".
[[]NOTE: the above quote appears to be attributed to Finn, but he never said it.[]]

You could argue we haven't found those records yet, but that's not very likely, since the areas of the exodus have been quite well researched.

America is an open society. We couldn’t have expunged Vietnam from the recorded if we wanted to, and I have no doubt some did.

The late dynastic Egyptians were not an open society. And I would argue that whether the Hebrews of the Exodus existed in Egypt or not, and there is linguistic evidence that they may have been there, the Egyptians would not have wanted a successful slave revolt like that a part of the historical record. The Egyptians were fastidious record keepers, but that doesn’t mean that they would have recorded everything, in fact it actually suggests the opposite. The Egyptians recorded what they wanted recorded. I’m not an Egyptologist or particularly expert on Egyptian writing, but I’m pretty sure that gaps in Egyptian “record keeping” are more common then you make them appear. In fact the history around Nefertiti is one good example. It’s not a question that the Egyptians forgot, as you disingenuously present my position, but rather that they controlled what was written in Egypt.

OMEGADARK

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 3:34 PM

RUE:

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love god and 2) love your neighbor.

you will see they are the sum of the OT ten commandments.

First 3 are love of God, last 7 love of neighbor...that's all that needs to be said..no bigger point that that...taking translations as 'of' can be dangerous...you could turn out to be right though, but it doesn't change the fact or moral...

This is how we know it now...and none of it makes it wrong or distorts the point....

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Further, that future culture will not even remember the meaning of what was once an eternal religion, practiced with all sincerity and fervor.

What a waste of mind and heart.

That is the assumption that all religions are the same and that is a dangerous assumption...the Mithras(sp?) or Baal worship is the same as Jesus or Allah. That's the danger...but this becomes a theological debate...and it will be an absrudly long one...so id rather leave it at that...if it is viewed from 'all worship and gods are alike' then I would say that what you are saying makes sense...but in my view they aren't and in my theological studies (although they have similar stories) some are vastly more potent and real than others (no fault necessarily of those who worshiped, just the reality IMO) just my .02

SigmaNunki

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Ok, now I'm confused. Perhaps it's the lack of sleep. Could you re-state the entire thought, I'm having problems right now

Hehe, I know the feeling, I wanted to say so much more yesterday and, in my exuastion, I wrote to little...

But, the point of what I was saying is this, I do not believe that the Bible is a moral guide I believe it was the inspired word of God and that it is 100% true. I am saying,for a believer that none of the anti-biblical arguments whether they are based in history or not will give a flying rats butt what is said...IMO. But, i know that not everyone believes, and if someone who wasn't a believer was asking me the things that were said in these posts, I would have to explain it to them in a way that makes sense to them (that's the way Jesus and God spoke that's why so much of what was said has the language and writing style of the day, and is often harsh to us today).

If I tell a non-believer who is interested that it often appears and can often be used as a moral guide and he or she listens and starts to read it, the further questions they will definitely have can be explained and doctrine can be clarified...

It all starts with their desire...no one can force them (the free will thing again). They want to i will help get the message out...they don't; I can't

See, the problem I have run into is that some believers fear they are rejecting or going against their religion if they don't explain it all as 'THIS IS THE WORD OF GOD! BELIEVE IT OR DIE!' who in thier right mind would even think of that positively today?

Thus, (Man that was long winded) when you said moral guide, I said no because that wasn't MY particular belief...but you arent necessarily wrong either... i was just responding to you in terms of how I believe.

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that in my experience talking to people "of faith" and my readings, that this seems to be true. That it is the general concensus.

*sign* unfortunately I can't disagree here...that has been my experience also...with both christians and non... it is like they just heard it at a sermon or from someone in an 'authoritative' position and never gave it another thought...

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One could interpret it to mean, if you don't take some time off regualarly, then you'll put yourself into the grave. Or similarly, if you don't take time off, you won't enjoy life and become a bitter shell of a man. etc.

And if you interpret it literally, badness.

exactly, those sounds like to viable answers (i haven't read that passage again, so i am taking your word on it). It has to be thought about and you must ask yourself, what the heck does this mean? because you are write in both cases, if all you do is work you will find an early grave...

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No, what I

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BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 3:52 PM

I just want to go on record as saying it is threads like this that continue to convince me that policy of not talking about politics, religion, or money is one of the best decisions I ever made.

That being said I must convey my dismay and disappointment in the lack of respect & tolerance by some members of this community in someone trying to discuss their beliefs. Ok, so maybe Leelu was a bit heavy handed & a little too enthusiastic about it, but that does not excuse attacking Leelu or Leelu's beliefs.

We don't have to agree with anyone, their beliefs, or their opinions, but we should all try to be respectful and tolerant. Extend to everyone the same courtesy you would expect for yourself.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

NUCKLES87

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 4:11 PM

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Originally posted by leelu7777:
fine live in darkness live in emptiness and die go to a place where you will have every disease and every mental sickness ever created because a misconception. I dont know what happened to you to get that idea but he will never let you down it just takes some time for every thing to take place. he lived for you he died for you and this is how you repay him he died because the devil took the keys of heaven so no one could enter he had a chance to flee the garden of olives and leave the people that cursed him and let you burn he could have had a long and furfilled life but no he was beaten broken and nailed at a tree his children spit on him and he knew it would happen he could of shunned them left them to suffer in etrenal darkness but no he forgave the ones that cursed him and you say he dosent care ha as a christian I know him speak to him and feel his love and his peace and then to hear the words of hate twards him to think people would rather chose emptyness and pain over peace and true everlasting love because of past wrong doings fine you have a choice not mine who am I to tell you it your life

i'm in the world not of it

Hence, why I became agnostic LONG ago.Of course, before that I was jewish, so I guess either way I'm going to hell, eh?

There is proof behind evolution. There is proof behind the big bang. There is no proof behind God. And if God provides no proof of his existence as a test of faith, or provides proof of other things to test his faith, I really wouldn't care the worship him regaurdless, a guy who obviously has nothing better to do then screw with the minds of little people, then punish them on account of it.

If God exists, he either has a great sense of humor or is a complete ass. Either way I have a feeling I'd like the guy. I mean, the guy behind Lean Cuisine Paninis must have SOMETHING going for him right?

I'm a good person. I know plenty of people who are not Christian, but are loads better then me. If we have to go to hell simply because of a difference of opinion, not of how we treated other people in the world around us, I have no interest in whether I'm going to heaven or hell.

Ok, I'm done ;).

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:
You know, it's funny; I wasn't going to post in this thread after reading it a bit (especially after the person who started it went off on what can only be an LSD inspired rant consigning Sig to the depths of hell), but I changed my mind. I'm a Christian, and by God, I have something to say.

I always wonder (especially in the neocon evangelical era) what happened to the Christianity I grew up with. I can rememner hearing things like "turn the other cheek," and "beating swords to plowshares," and sacrificing ourselves to serve others. I remember "hate the sin, not the sinner," and "be not like the hypocrites that pray in the streets." I remember the Resurrection was about hope and salvation.

Now look at what we have. We bomb people in the name of God (don't think we do? Our fearless leader preaches that he follows God's direction). We torture, and think that it's okay to live in fear. We have protestors that show up waving signs that say "God hates fags." God hates? Since when? Last time I checked, Jesus was about free love and forgiveness. We have people in Missouri trying to create state sponsored religion, and people screaming on television about how good a worshipper they are. Now, people are waiting for the second coming not with hope, but with an attitude of "watch me go to Heaven in the rapture, all you corrupted souls, as I laugh while you suffer." What kind of attitude is that?

I'm sorry, but Christians have become decidedly un-Christian as of late, including the thread's OP, who ranted about someone going to hell. The fact that you praised the 700 club, whose leader (isn't that Pat Robertson?) called for an assassination of a Supreme Court judge and the Venezuelan President, makes me shudder in incredulity.

Sorry, but as the so-called "evangeli

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CARTOON

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 4:49 PM

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Originally posted by OmegaDark:
...others, and I believe more truthfully say, that it was a parable or event that happened to show where everything came from: GOD. God, gave Abraham the child when he could have none, God gave him everything! It wasn't a sacrifice of worth it was seeing if Abraham knew that what he has, what he loves, only came from God. That he wouldn't be attached to things as if he (Abraham) created it. Not even his child.

Something else is often overlooked when discussing the sacrifice of Isaac...

In Genesis 15, God came to Abraham and told him that he would have an heir born of his own body, and that Abraham's descendants would be as the stars of the sky.

God reiterated that pledge in Genesis 17, that He would give Sarah a son (named Isaac), through whom God would establish His covenant (specifically with Isaac and Isaac's descendants after him).

So when God later asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac in Genesis 22, I believe it was more a test to see if Abraham believed God's previous promises that God would establish His covenant with Isaac (and Isaac's descendants after him), than a test to determine whether Abraham was willing to give up his son.

Abraham believed that God would establish the covenant through Isaac and Isaac's descendants (as He had promised), so Abraham knew that even if Isaac died on Mt. Moriah, that God would have to raise him from the dead in order to keep His promise.

Abraham believed God would keep His promise to him, and proved it by his willingness to slay the son through whom it was promised that the covenant would be established.

And the thing which I find the most profound about this whole event is what Abraham said as he was about to slay Isaac -- that God, would provide Himself the lamb for the offering.

I doubt if Abraham understood the significance of that remark, because God indeed would provide the lamb for the offering -- His own Son.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, March 8, 2006 5:04 PM

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Originally posted by Finn Mac Cumhal:
[[]NOTE: the above quote appears to be attributed to Finn, but he never said it.[]]

It wasn't a quote, something quite clear in fact, by the fact it wasn't enclosed in a quote block.

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The late dynastic Egyptians were not an open society. And I would argue that whether the Hebrews of the Exodus existed in Egypt or not, and there is linguistic evidence that they may have been there, the Egyptians would not have wanted a successful slave revolt like that a part of the historical record.

Except the only people who could read and write in Egypt and who had access to the historical records were the high priests. They had no reason to hide the event from the general populace to prevent further slave revolts or whatever.

Also, what linguistic evidence are you referring too?

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The Egyptians were fastidious record keepers, but that doesn’t mean that they would have recorded everything, in fact it actually suggests the opposite.

No it doesn't.

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I’m not an Egyptologist or particularly expert on Egyptian writing, but I’m pretty sure that gaps in Egyptian “record keeping” are more common then you make them appear.

Actually the records I've heard of are blow by blow accounts and where there are gaps it's because the records have been destroyed in the intervening centuries.

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It’s not a question that the Egyptians forgot, as you disingenuously present my position, but rather that they controlled what was written in Egypt.

Now now Finn, you can't get indignant, you started it by suggesting what I posted about a real historical event that could have been the inspiration for a single Bible passage was scientific proof behind the entire Bible. I thought that was somewhat tongue in cheek, as was my comment meant to be. Your reaction makes me think that maybe you were being serious. If you don’t like it, don’t dish it out.

At the end of the day the Bible is not the word of God. At best it is the word of God interpreted through man. This isn't blaspheme or heresy, this is what the Christian Church itself says.

Neither is the Bible an exhaustive historical reference. The fact that some passages are supported by historical and scientific evidence proves that the Bible is inspired by real history, not necessarily an account of it.

Hell the Da Vinci Code is fairly well researched uses a lot of real history, but it's entirely fiction. It uses those bits of History that fits the story, ignores other bits and fudges what's left to fit.

Just because the Bible talks about the exodus doesn't mean it happened, or that it happened how the Bible says. Their may have been a revolt, I believe some are record, with a bit of embellishment, fudge the dates, shoe horn in the eruption, plagues and parting of the sea, stir it all together, say it happened all at the same time, and there you have it. It's how most good stories are written.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear