I Need the Ugly Truth-Please Help Me

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 01:03
VIEWED: 13129
PAGE 5 of 9

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.

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Anyone can say that they "love" someone. Love isn't a word. It's also not a feeling -- emotional (affection) or sexual (lust). It's not a higher form of "liking" someone (enjoyment). It's an action. It's putting someone else before yourself, regardless of who they are, what they do, or how you may benefit from it. One doesn't "fall into" love -- one chooses either to love or not to love. One loves by their actions.

When it comes to "love", words mean nothing. Actions speak louder than words. If someone does what's in your best interest, regardless of the cost to themselves -- *with no hope of ever benefiting from their action on your behalf, then they love you.

(*Unfortunately, people's motives aren't painted on their faces for the world to see, and people can treat you like they love you because they're looking at subsequently getting something from you.)

Be wary of people who say they love you. Be wary of people who act like they love you because there may be something in it for them down the road.

If someone loves you, they won't have to tell you that they love you for you to know it.

Oh. And by the way, if you find it, be sure not to let it get away. (That should go without saying, but I had some room left over, so I decided to tack it on.)

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.

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Don't fret. That's what forums are for.

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River:
Erm, hmm, not sure how too put it, got things to say, not many words too say them.

I see you doubting your humanity is that right? If so I wouldn't, you had some kind words for me in that post, and after, as you say, I made you cry, so that should say volumes for your true nature, nes pas?

If you're worried about things, if you're apprehensive about your life or whatever I'd suggest talking to someone. Often that's a therapist because we all like to hide things from those closest to us, but it needn't be. Anyone whom you can rant and rave at, if necessary, who will not hold that against you is fine. Doing it on line can help, but it's no substitute due to the impersonal nature of the web. Talking face to face with someone can be therapeutic, a great help. Not necessarily drugs or a life time of exposing your 'inner child', just griping about that twat that cut you up at the junction or whatever can help a lot.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Hey River,

I guess most people get there emotional stability from their families - it's an easy and natural way for human beings to live out their need to love and be loved.

It occured to me reading zoid's post, and then his little anonymous quote at the bottom; "You are sufficient for the world from the day you are born, and it for you." that some people through unfortunate circumstances are deprived of the kind of things (like family) that make life 'sufficient' for us. Most of us get our security from our family - a sense of identity and a guarantee of unconditional love when the rest of the world screws us over. It also teaches us to go out into the rest of the world and learn to love other people without fear.

I think that a lot of your problems stem from the absence of this in your childhood. I don't know what happened to you 6 years ago (and unfortunately yes, some people in this world can be really good at inflicting misery on others) but I think you are suffering now for not having the safety net of a loving family back then, to help you keep faith in love and humanity. Maybe i'm reading too much into things, i don't know.

Anyway, I think you need love and companionship in your life - as far as I'm aware we're all made for it, and women more than men.

From what you've described of your life this may not be easy - you probably have a reputation for being a bitch amongst the people at work whom you have most human interaction with, which will be akward to get over. Plus you have a self confessed lack of social skills (me too, btw) which will make acquiring friends difficult. Maybe you could do ok in the dating scene, but I dunno. You'd need to acquire a sex drive I think.

So, considering all this I came to one final idea about what you should do, and that is adopt a child. Do you like children? I worry for the child a little bit, but you say you're a 'nice' person so I don't see why there wouldn't be a mother in you. You might just find that the child would open up a part of you and make you feel (more?) complete. All children are selfish, which I know you hate, but you can be sure they're not wolves in sheep's clothing. And you could certainly give the little guy a good home.

What do you think? If you aren't sure you're ready for a child you could start with a dog or something. Do you like dogs? Everyone likes dogs I know it's a cliche; the cute little puppy dog melting the heart of the cold ice woman who doesn't know how to love, but I don't know, it could work.

I guess till now I have been a bit negative disagreeing with Zoid's optimistic quote and generally ruling you out of a lot of the warmth of human interaction that most of the rest of us enjoy. But I do think you have the potential for all that stuff - Your strong willed and smart and funny and I've enjoyed interacting with you on these message boards as have many others i believe.

So, down the road (unless Hollywood has lied to me), you could find that your relationship with the baby/pet has opened your heart up to other aspects of human love such as friendship and romance.

Anyway I better end here. I hope I've been of help, but I realise my advice is based quite a lot on assumptions about your life so it may be quite daft in which case laugh at it and disregard.

Either way good luck working your life out River

kpo

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Hi River6213,

To steal a few phrases from a great writer we all know cause he said it better in just a few words than I ever could no matter how many of my own words I might use.


I'm only gonna say this once.
You're on our crew.
Why are we still talkin' bout this?

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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River6213,

You mention in your first post that you are good at science...are you a scientist? I am, an astronomer, and I know first hand that working in a laboratory or academic atmosphere is not the best place for human contact.

Regardless, I'm sorry you feel bad. I do think that talking to someone, anyone you can trust, is a good idea. Odd as it may seem, you can trust therapists, as they are paid to listen, and can't divulge anything you say to others. Also, people you will probably never meet (like us) work too...anonymity can be liberating.

Good luck. And remember that almost everyone here can probably relate to you in some way.

Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hey River -

As a similarly overly smart overly driven independent type woman, I'm telling you that a lot of what you say is familar.

There's no shame in going to a therapist. It can save your life, at least make it worth living.

Actually, when you think about it, anybody who's ANYBODY has a therapist. It's the thing to do. Especially for overachievers. It'll make you cooler. You can go to cocktail parties and share therapist stories, make friend in an instant. (I know it's hard to tell on the internet, so I should clarify - I'm only kidding about 25% and the rest is serious. Really!)

Go, make an appoinment. Now!

Lots of love (seriously!)
m4p


Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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I just woke up! I must have been tired!
I took the day off of work and spent all day going through the yellow pages in search of a therapist. Personally, I think I need a full blown psychiatrist, but I figured I would start small and work my way up.
I feel no shame in this. If I have a problem and I do suspect that I have, maybe its time to move this conversation out of the forum and into the hands of someone who is practiced at listening to idiots who are on their way out, and have a little money to throw about.

Personally, I think that I actually hate myself. I was programmed to hate myself. From the age on 1 I was told that I would fail in life and I would be this awful person, but look what happened! I succeeded in a way that no one expected. Now my family, who I disowned, is now coming to ME for advice! I want to have nothing to do with that, or them, and they don’t seem to understand why. They keep giving me this noise about how we are a family and how we should stick together!!???? What is that all about? I don’t need them…I don’t need anyone. THEY taught me that, and now that I’m a success, SUDDENLY we are all family? Frak them! Call me cold-blooded, call me selfish, call me a person with a chip on my shoulders, call me anything you want, but what the hell am I supposed to do?

Put yourself in my place. All your life people disrespect you, call you names, laugh at you and your ideas, and put you down at all times. All your plans are laughed at, all your dreams are crushed by these people, and then one day you are successful, and then all of a sudden they are all over you saying YOU are family, and how much they love you??? Give me a break!!! When I was a so-called loser all they did was put me down, and now that I’m doing great financially, suddenly I’m the star-child of life? Are humans that simple?

The only time my so-called family contacts me is for money. That’s’ the only time I ever hear from them, therefore I decided last year to totally disown these people. From this point on I consider myself an orphan. Call me selfish. I know I’m gonna go to hell for this, but its not fair…all I’ve ever wanted was to to belong somewhere...is this wrong??? Maybe its okay for other people, but it seems that the universe doesn’t want me to have an easy time here on earth….

River

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Originally posted by singate:

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Hate is a predictable emotion. When someone is behaving in a hateful manner towards me, it is easy to deal with...matter of fact I suddenly understand my place in the universe, I am empowered, and I attack or defend accordingly. Hate is so predictable and it is real. It is something that is SO completely understood by me. Hate is easy. Hate is what has kept me alive for so many years. Hate is the other “White Meat” Hate: It’s what’s for Dinner.

Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.

It’s been my experience that love has brought forth more pain and misery to my life than any other emotion, therefore, love is lacking…love does not work for me. Love is a trick, love is a cheat to get me to lower my defenses, so the enemy can attack, which they almost always do, and I have no defense for this…none at all, so I run.

People are experts when it comes to hurting each other. They say that Man’s not perfect, but I say man is perfect at one thing, and that’s making each other miserable. In this I say man is an expert, he is elite at this, which he has demonstrated throughout history time and time again without fail.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.

River

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Now you're speaking my language. I am feel compelled to repeat myself: there is nothing wrong with you. The emotions you are feeling are completely natural. Based on the sum of your life experiences how else were you supposed to respond?

The only thing I would disagree with is the statement that you created a machine. This makes it seem like you introduced something artificial into yourself. There couldn't be anything further from the truth. What you have there has been there all along, you just were not paying any attention to it.

Save your money on therapy. The only thing those guys are good for is getting you hooked on so called mood elevators. Then again, you might find a shrink who will analyze you for thirty years and still not solve your "problem".

The best advice I can give is to quit fighting your nature. This is causing you a great deal of stress and is truly self-destructive. The thoughts you have are not hurting anyone, in fact they are probably a good way for you to relieve pressure.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Good advice, but I NEED to talk to someone. its important at this weird crossroads in my life. If I don't manange to talk about my demons I'm going to do something foolhardy like put a gun to my head and kill myself, and that would be a shame because I suspect that underneath all this garbage I call myself, is a nice girl who might have a measure of love in her...I want to save that girl.... its important. In order for me to survive, she has to live.

River

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Originally posted by zoid:
RiveR6213 wrote, variously:

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Hate is a predictable emotion...

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Yes, hatred is always predictable. It stems from alienation, and its goal is to spread alienation to everyone it touches. Loneliness, paranoia and unhappiness are the only fruits it yields.

You seem to be unhappy -- or 'dissatisfied', if you'd prefer -- with the way your life is heading. The only way your life will change is if you make a conscious decision to take control of your life, and to change your way of thinking. What you're doing now -- clinging to hate and despair like a life raft -- is not working for you; time to do something radically different.

Love involves a lot more risk than hatred. That is also true. But no one ever became successful at anything without taking some risks. Therefore, since you are a successful business woman, I am certain you are familiar with -- and comfortable with -- taking risks that many people would blanch at.

You might say, 'But love is a different type of risk, one that does not yield to reasonable cost-benefit analysis'. (Not to put words in your mouth.) That's absolutely correct. Love is the biggest crap shoot there ever was, precisely because it's entirely to do with emotions, not logical analysis.

But, the same techniques you use to limit risks in business or any other aspect of your life, also apply to love. As in business, retain your own identity. Do not get swallowed and digested into a larger entity; give that same freedom to those who love you. Require it of them. Too many times, two individual people become 'a couple' and lose themselves in the process.

I truly loved Firefly -- in a strictly platonic way -- mostly because of Wash and Zoe's marriage. They were intensely individualistic, in many ways opposite personalities. They both had to give up things that were important to them: Zoe, a child; Wash, being alone with Zoe, for example. But they did so, willingly, out of love for one another, a desire to make the partnership work. (Please note that it didn't mean they didn't still hotly debate these and other issues, all the time.)

That's why I loved their relationship. It's true-to-life. In a healthy relationship, partners don't walk around joined at the forehead; there is push-and-pull, give and take, and two distinct people with their own boundaries can be readily identified.

I must point out though: Romantic love is only one of the many forms of love. The love I feel for my wife is of a significantly different 'flavor' than the love than I feel for my children; than the love I feel for my brother, mother and father (may he rest in peace); and those are different than the love I feel for my fellow human beings. Can it be confusing? Yes. Could I get hurt? Yes.

Would I trade the loving experiences in my life -- even the ones that ended badly -- for all the gold in the world? Not a chance in hell. No other memory in my life is as precious to me as seeing my son and daughter borne into this world by the woman I love, the direct product of our love for one another.

And the bad experiences in my life -- even the horrific ones that no human being should ever have to experience -- have made me the person I am today. I am happy to be that person, and I would not trade places with anyone else, even though I carry painful and shameful memories of my own weakness and stupidity and self-importance, too.

My questions for you:
"What good is all your success if you can't enjoy it, if it makes you so unstable that you terrify yourself?"

"Why do you fear losing your identity and discernment if you allow love -- love of one person, or love of everything in the universe -- into your heart? Indeed, why do you fear anything at all?"

Fear says, "I'm different. People will notice that, and despise me. I'll hate them and distrust them for despising me." Hatred is a reaction to one's own fear, to one's own feelings of inadequacy. It says

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