who was zoe going to draw on in the bdm?
POSTED BY: oct0gen
UPDATED: Monday, March 6, 2006 18:20
VIEWED: 11216
PAGE 2 of 6
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where River mentions the Mayfield's ball this year, and her parents and Simon nervously concur that there was no such event.
Actually it was the Darbanvill's ball or some such in the show. I'm not sure what the script might say.
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
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P.S. And if it came down to Wash or Mal, she would have (*sob* past tense!) killed Mal to save Wash. I believe that. Mal or Simon? Doctor loses every time. Just sayin'.
Sorry, double post, But I totally agree with this. And in the contect of the Movie I really think that it was just an automatic reaction to a really tense and precarious moment. If she'd had to use it she would have but I don't think she had any real palns as to who she was going to use it on. I do think it would have been Simon though.
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
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I figured it was mostly just instincts (Sudden violent movements = Go for gun!), since she didn't even take it out of the holster.
I doubt she would be drawing on Simon, especially since he was the one with the lower hand (Mal's so much bigger than him) and she's never given any indication of being angry at Simon as much as Mal is.
So I don't think she was reaching for her gun with the intent to shoot anyone. If anything, it was a character note that when there's trouble on the ship, the first thing Zoe's hand goes to is her gun. I think it was Joss in his commentary who said he liked it how each character reacted to Mal's outburst a different way.
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Could you please just make it stranger? Just stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?
~Joss Whedon
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I'm glad there's a posting on this. Most of the times I saw the BDM, I thought she was backing up Mal. But then it occurred to me Simon was unarmed, had no chance of hurting Mal, and (if I remember right) was already between Mal and the table at the time. We all saw how well Mal did fighting the operative.
I'm assuming she was drawing on Mal, and taking it (and the 'no man left behind' speech at the beginning) as a slight sign of disillusionment brewing. Sorry - flame on.
"It's a cow."
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Originally posted by zoid:
Whatever objections she may have to Mal's reasoning, she never fails to follow his lead. If you want to speculate on something along these lines: Why does she so steadfastly follow him? What factor(s) in Zoe's past cause her to trust his judgment so rigorously? Was it something to do with a specific wartime scenario she shared with him? Did Mal save her from something so horrendous that she can never even think about betraying him?
These are the interesting questions, imo.
Zoid, I do agree that these are interesting points. The one nagging question in my mind while I watch Firefly is "Why does Zoe stay at his side?" When most (all?) vets come back from a war, they may hang out together, but to constantly be partnered up in everything?! There's being grateful that he saved everyone's life, and then there's spending yours at his side. Plus it's fairly obvious that Mal is much more reckless than Zoe is. She obviously loves Wash. When they're talking about having kids, why doesn't she leave with Wash to have a safe life somewhere? They both could get jobs anywhere.
"It's a cow."
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Originally posted by zoid:
Case in point, while she did question Mal about leaving the man for the Reavers, after the fact, let's not forget she was the one driving the mule.
...And she didn't hesitate to obey Mal's order to drive away from the man.
Actually, she did kind of hesitate. She does not speed up (get the mule out of first gear) until the guy is dead. This leaves it open, and gives the guy a chance. And it's not out of fear of hitting things in the city, as evidenced when she does "step on it". You may want to watch the scene again... ( a good excuse to, anyway
)"It's a cow."
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Yeah, I was pretty sure it wasn't Mayfield... unfortunately, my DVD of the series is currently lent to a friend, so I couldn't check. I was hoping no one would notice... hmm, probably not the best idea on a board full of people who've watched the full span of the series regularly for the past 3 years...
Here's to the Darbanvills and thier lovely balls.
Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?
If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!
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Sickdude wrote:
Quote:
Actually, she did kind of hesitate. She does not speed up (get the mule out of first gear) until the guy is dead. This leaves it open, and gives the guy a chance. And it's not out of fear of hitting things in the city, as evidenced when she does "step on it". You may want to watch the scene again... ( a good excuse to, anyway)
Yer splittin' hairs.
The fact is, she didn't stop the mule and demand he be taken aboard. A man's life hung in the balance and -- yeah, at less than breakneck speed -- she left his ass to the Reavers, as ordered.
Her loyalty to Mal trumps all other considerations.
I've got a couple more for you:
First example: In the pilot, after Dobson shoots Kaylee in the abdomen, Mal wants to dump the Tams with the Feds. Simon issues the ultimatum that he won't save Kaylee unless Mal orders them to make a run for it. It is Inara who prompts Mal to decide against his initial reaction; Kaylee's moan of pain is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Once Mal makes the decision -- and not until, not before -- Zoe immediately signals the bridge and says, "we're running".
Throughout the confrontation, Zoe says nothing like 'We've got to help them' or 'We've got to save Kaylee'. She simply waits for Mal to make his decision, regardless that Kaylee will probably die if he decides against helping the Tams escape. It's Mal's call; she will follow.
Second example: In "War Stories", Zoe immediately chooses Wash over Mal. First glance says that she unhesitatingly values Wash over Mal, right? But, in the very next scene, we can see that she's only thinking analytically. She says Niska will want to keep Mal alive for as long as possible, in order to prolong the torture and exact full retribution from Mal.
Left unsaid is that Niska has no such designs on Wash. If Wash dies (as indeed Malcolm did) Niska won't feel the need to revive him to extract more pain from him; Wash's lifeless body would just get unceremoniously dumped onto some garbage heap.
Also, since Niska is obviously fixated on Mal as the cause of his loss of reputation with his fellow psychotics, what do you think the chances were that he would've let Zoe walk out with Mal, leaving him with only Wash to torture, had she chosen Mal? Slim to none, I reckon.
She made the only choice she really had. Then, to top it off, after they get back to Serenity, she immediately prepares to leave her soul mate and throw herself vainly against Niska's fortifications in a hopeless attempt to rescue all the remaining pieces of Mal, to go along with his ear, which she already has in her possession. Wash sees her methodically configuring her loadout, and decides to go with her; the rest of the crew eventually follow suit.
But she's going back for Mal, one way or the other.
There's more than enough clues here, folks. All the subtle little things she does throughout the series and the movie... Joss' got something up his sleeve with Zoe, and I suspect it ain't all straightforward and virtuous, by a long shot.
On the other hand, maybe Joss isn't that subtle. Maybe he wouldn't intentionally set his audience up for a slow-burn and a kick in the 'nads like that. Joss ain't capable of that level of deception... Right? Whaddya think?
(Over(?)) Imaginatively,
zoid
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"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'
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Zoid,
All good points, to be sure. And I agree: Zoe is excessively loyal and unquestioning to Mal. My only point was that between the mule/survivor scene, the "Sir, do you mean to turn our home..." line, and the gun scene (if you buy that interpretation), the BDM starts to portray that her loyalty is slightly less than it used to be. (only slightly!) Anyway, just my opinion.
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Also, Joss did something similar with Oz and Willow. Who would've thought Oz would cheat on Willow?
Thanks for pointing out the "Wash wouldn't be revived" aspect from War Stories. Completely missed that!
"It's a cow."
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Originally posted by thesoapboxer:
I figured it was mostly just instincts (Sudden violent movements = Go for gun!), since she didn't even take it out of the holster.
I doubt she would be drawing on Simon, especially since he was the one with the lower hand (Mal's so much bigger than him)
I completely agree.
It was just an example of Joss' subtle attention to details. Zoe, as a soldier, just instinctively went for the gun, simply because the situation seemed to escalate.
I doubt actually drawing on anyone even occured to her, on a conscious level. Simon is no threat to Mal at all. And Zoe knows this, of course.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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