who was zoe going to draw on in the bdm?

POSTED BY: oct0gen
UPDATED: Monday, March 6, 2006 18:20
VIEWED: 11216
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FLAUTISTFIRST

Friday, March 3, 2006 5:55 PM

At the risk of disrupting anyone's muses, I too am going to say that I've enjoyed zoid's musings on the topic.

I just love this kind of conversation.

And I also agree with the interpretation of Wash/Zoe and loyalty to Mal. I also admit to instictively understanding the "So I have a way" scene, but not to knowing about tao. Cool to have it revealed.

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

SICKDUDE

Friday, March 3, 2006 6:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Which forces me to reiterate: What kind of hell did Mal rescue Zoe from, to engender loyalty that deep and lasting? Oh, sure, the easy answer is "The Battle of Serenity"; but what specifically happened that ripped these two people in half and then grafted them together at the soul?

Yeah, what you said! In "The Message" we meet another happy survivor of Serenity. And yet there is no connection/comraderie like between Zoe and Mal.

"It's a cow."

MAL4PREZ

Friday, March 3, 2006 6:29 PM

Interesting posts ... I had my own opinions to add but then y'all covered it for me.

One bad thing though - I've been in a place of peace with Firefly, but now you're making me bitter again! I really want to see the Mal/Zoe backstory done right - not in a comic book or a few hurried movie scenes but over several seasons on TV!

Bad bitterness, bad, bad!

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

CBY

Friday, March 3, 2006 7:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tmurrie:
I think she would have pulled her gun on anyone who pulled their gun first. [...] I think she would make sure nothing happened, no matter who was the aggressor

I'll go with this one. Seems perfectly Zoe to me.

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ZOID

Friday, March 3, 2006 7:04 PM

Sickdude:

I don't think Tracey was at Serenity Valley. He got wounded at Du-Khang (Disk 4, "The Message", Scene 3). Some sort of leg wound that required Mal to carry him ("You know the old saying..."). I always assumed it got him released from military duty, a so-called 'million dollar wound'.

Even so, Tracey exhibited some classic symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. And vets aren't the only ones who get it, either... (See also http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/facts/general/fs_what_is_ptsd.html)

Think about Kaylee's physical reaction to the video of the "Research & Rescue" woman getting raped/eaten/eviscerated on Miranda (Scene 14 on the DVD). Inara cries, River vomits. Kaylee stands stock still, arms hugged across her breasts as though she is standing naked, hand over her mouth, fingers trembling, then slowly turns away. The look in her eyes... The others are horrified, Kaylee identifies. That's all about her experience with Early, imo. ...And maybe that was all about something more substantive that happened at an even earlier time in her life (pointed choice of words intended). When Early asks her if she's ever been raped, she never denies it (Disk 4, "Objects In Space", Scene 6). When Jubal takes control of her, I get the distinct impression she's familiar with the drill. And I think Jubal sensed that about her.

Kaylee's reaction in Serenity... Have I called Joss a genius too many times?

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Maybe that's the secret of the 'verse, hmmm? Everybody's got PTSD, with the possible exceptions of Wash and Simon, who frequently seem confused as to the actions and motivations of the others... *discards the notion as too simplistic*
_________________________________________________

"...It's the real world I couldn't survive." -Tracey, Firefly, "The Message"

CBY

Friday, March 3, 2006 7:10 PM

[nothing here]

°°°°°°°°°°°°
http://www.byond-trax.com - my selfmade ambient/lounge/chillout music
www.botttos.de/mphillips/mphillips_vol1.exe - mphillips 100 in 1 pack Vol.1

RAE

Friday, March 3, 2006 8:00 PM

"Second example: In "War Stories", Zoe immediately chooses Wash over Mal. First glance says that she unhesitatingly values Wash over Mal, right"

I had a completely different take on this...Zoe is Mal's second in command. As such, it is her JOB to rescue any of the crew first. She knows Mal is tough. He will survive, and it is her job to get the rest of the team out first. She would have made the same choice if it had been any other team member. That's exactly the decision Mal would have expected her to make.

Rae

PS...I also think she had every intention of going back for Mal, even if she had to do it alone. But, it would be much easier to rescue Mal than it would have been to rescue Wash. Mal would probably be able to help more with his own rescue than Wash would be. I also don't think she had any doubts about the rest of the crew coming with her to rescue her. It's what family does.

No power in the 'verse can stop me!

ZOID

Friday, March 3, 2006 8:12 PM

Rae wrote:

Quote:
...I had a completely different take on this...

Looks like the same take I outlined in the sentences that followed. So, I guess I'm saying I agree with your conclusions...

v/r,
-zed

"Gravity's Earth norm." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, upon landing on Miranda

MAL4PREZ

Friday, March 3, 2006 8:16 PM

The other thing - on his way out, Wash looked back at Mal and Mal shook his head, like he was saying shut up and go with the plan. Zoe and Mal seemed to have their usual unspoken understanding of the situation, and of the best stragedy for dealing with it.

So I dont see that scene as Zoe picking Wash over Mal in the absolute sense. She knew the best chance of getting them both out was to take Wash, because Mal was more likely to survive longer.

My .02

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

ZEEK

Friday, March 3, 2006 8:55 PM

I can't believe no one has questioned the unfailing loyalty of robot Zoe. I think that is far from the truth of the matter. Zoe has very strong loyalty, but she's no robot. She has her own opinions and only follows the captain when the two agree or she's too unsure to make a solid stand. Sure there are many examples of her following orders. There are also examples of her taking her own initiative even against what Mal wants.

During Shindig Mal makes a rude joke to Kaylee and Zoe takes whatever bag Mal is carrying and ditches him. They were obviously all moving as a group to some destination and she changed the plans on her own.

During Out of Gas the captain made the plan to send the shuttles in opposite directions to go with the best odds of rescue. She changed Mal's plan on her own and turned back. Sure she saved Mal's life but she also disobeyed orders. And before the coma argument pops up, I'm sure that the military has some sort of rules about orders that are communicated through an intermediary still are orders from a superior. I could be wrong on that though.

During War Stories Wash changes the startup sequence for the extra shuttle. Mal tells Wash that he's not going on the mission. Zoe comes over Mal's head and tells him to let it go. Seems rather insubordinate to me.

Even though there are plenty of good points from the series to consider, we have to think that it's been 6 months in verse time between the series and the movie. Joss changes characters by leaps and bounds in 6 months. I think in Serenity it's supposed to hit us pretty hard that Zoe is questioning Mal to the point of drawing a gun on him. That's supposed to be a large neon light telling us that times have gotten so tough the past few months that even Zoe is really questioning Mal's every decision. I took that little holster draw bit to be a really powerful scene to the fans who pay close enough attention.

As was pointed out, Simon was unarmed (I'd have to go rewatch to be sure) and on his back at the time. That doesn't seem like the situation where Mal is in any danger. There's no reason she would need to draw on Simon.

Edit: Forgot one other Zoe changing the plans moment. This one from the BDM itself. Mal says for everyone to get inside the blast doors and seal them and wait for him to come back. She flat out rejects his plan and tells him they are going to make a stand where they are. Lead the reavers in and finish it. Once again Zoe shows that she doesn't straight up follow orders from Mal.

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