umm..battlestar?
POSTED BY: terrifried
UPDATED: Saturday, March 25, 2006 20:26
VIEWED: 39257
PAGE 5 of 19
How about characters who are fundamentally flawed but still rise to the occasion when destiny demands it? (all the characters in both BSG and Firefly)
How about plotlines that aren't cookie-cutter and often cause our 'heroes' to show their failings?
(all the stories of Firefly and BSG)
How about an enemy so insidious and evil that they could be your best friend and you wouldn't know it?
How about leadership that is too weak at times and overbearing strength at others. (The Pres and Adama and Tigh versus Mal, the Operative, etc.)
Sounds more like a future reality than black/white characters and plots that some seem to prefer in this thread.
All entertainment has some tie-in to the reality it is part of. Otherwise you get art that no one understands or wants a part of. Commentary on current events is part of that tie-in.
My .02 Please flame on...
Andrew Schultz
www.browncoatsriseagain.com
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Battlestar Galactica is absolutly genious. They are pushing the bounds of creative television for the masses, even though most of the masses won't understand it and will resort back to WWF, or WWE, or whatever it is
I love battlstar Galactica so much, I think I'm gonna marry it.
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When the miniseries first came out, I knew it was gonna be bad 15 minutes into it. 4 torturous hours of boring dialogue, bad script writing, and bad acting ~ 4 hours with virtually zero combat. Where was the epic battle of human versus cylon? You hear about it but don't see it. Shit, if they couldn't budget any money for a decent space battle, or some skirmishing with cylons on the planet's surface, why bother remaking it in the first place?
And then there's the wardrobes... the minute I saw everyone from the homeworld running around in Brook's Brothers, Gucci, and Armani suits, I realised that the people making it were never fans of the original show (or misunderstood it's basic premise). This is supposed to be a culture of humans who've developed independantly of us for 10,000 years plus?? They all look like they just jumped off the cover of GQ magazine. And I'm not buying the "low budget" argument. Creative laziness, plain and simple. In the original BSG (which was low budget), they actually employed a wardrobe department and gave people tech-modern costumes that were reminiscent of ancient Grecian robes, togas, etc. The viper pilots and battle-crew's uniforms had a military feel about it which blended both ancient and modern-day world. The old brown costumes with the riding-boots were slick. Look at the original viper-pilot helmets... it's design had a cobra-like feel to it. Now they are wearing plastic bike-helmets with cheesy lighting and $20 jumpsuits that you can buy at any surplus store. Wow. They really went overboard in "re-imagining" that part. Whoopity doo and shit.
And Gixxer took the words right out of my own mouth about the new cylons being copies of that noir-ish "Sky Captain" movie. The most enduring aspect of loving the old show for anyone who grew up watching it was the original cylon ships and bots... The saucers (raiders) were just cool as hell, and the bots had an ominous electrical voice and a red oscillating light in their visors that eventually found it's way onto the front hood of the "Knight Rider" hot-road. We won't call it a rip-off.... we'll call it an "inspiration".
When we finally do meet the cylons in the series (since they never appear in the 4 hour mini), they are fighting a religious crusade to destroy humanity. Why? Cuz God told them to. Gimme a friggin break. Don't you you just kind of hate it when your toaster becomes a holy warrior hellbent on your own destruction? I knew mine was trying to murder me when all my toast came out burnt. Ya know... I'm an atheist. I couldn't give a shit about religion, but this is such a stupid political departure from the original show. This isn't BSG... a bad copy maybe, but they should have given the show another name. "Attack of the Religious Robots"? "Jihad-o-bots"? This whole unending arc about evangelistic androids and the seduction/betrayal of Gaius Baltar is just tedious and stupid.
One final thing to BROWNCOATSRISEAGAIN:
I have no problem with them making the characters in the new show flawed. In fact, that makes it more believable IMHO. The original series was too campy. I also thought making Starbuck into a hawt chick and throwing in the romantic tension potential with Apollo was brilliant. Hell... the android infiltration thing was a decent idea if it had been handled differently. But a handful of decent ideas does not a good series make. The script writing is horrendous, the plots boring ~ a bona-fide sleeping pill. And there are too many inconsistencies in the storyline from one episode to the next (which would take forever to spell out).
I was excited when I heard they were remaking a mini-series and potentially bringing back the show. I've stuck it out since day 1, but it started out bad, and has stayed that way for me. I was nostalgically loyal to the original BSG (watching it when I was a kid, dressing like a cylon on halloween, etc.), and for the last couple years I've tried to maintain an interest in the new one hoping they would, sooner or later, make it interesting. It's a dismal failure in that respect. I hate
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XeroG--
Uhh... we got it. You don't like the new BSG. The fact is, though, at least on this board (and seemingly scifi channel's viewership in general), you are in the minority. A lot of people really, really like this new version. A lot don't like the old version. I for one thought it was waaaay to campy and cheesy. But I'm not going to rant and rave and call names just because someone else does like it.
You're ranting in this thread won't change anyone's mind, nor will our views of the show change yours. Go watch the original on DVD, go post on boards for that show. No need to be a troll around here.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Storymark:
Gee whiz. I love the "Uhh... ok we got it the 1st time" response. It's getting kind of generic.
I'm sorry dude. I didn't realise this was the "ONLY PEOPLE WHO LOVE BSG CAN POST HERE" thread. I guess if I'm a dissenter, I have to speak my piece, be called names, then lay down and take it... oh wait a minute...
I forgot. I'm THE ONE calling people names. I'm such a shit-disturber. But of course, whats-her-name was "only poking fun" when she called me an ignorant bigot. So very self-righteous. I'm always provoking people.
Get your snout out of Dark Jester's ass dude. Seriously. Dispute me on the facts (if you can). If your brain is equal to the task. Or lay another "Umm.. ok we got it the 1st time" line on me. Cheesy cop-out of an inferior intellect.
I'm a "ranter", I'm a "bigot", I'm "ignorant", I'm a "troll"... I love it. Gimme more.
XG
oh here it comes... part deux to the "Uhh... ok we got it the 1st time" response...
pt. 2:
"don't you understand if you keep discussing this with him you'll only provoke him more. clearly we're intellectually elite cuz he's a (YOUR CHOICE OF THE ABOVE)."
predictable as always.
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Storymark:
Gee whiz. I love the "Uhh... ok we got it the 1st time" response. It's getting kind of generic.
I'm sorry dude. I didn't realise this was the "ONLY PEOPLE WHO LOVE BSG CAN POST HERE" thread. I guess if I'm a dissenter, I have to speak my piece, be called names, then lay down and take it... oh wait a minute...
I forgot. I'm THE ONE calling people names. I'm such a shit-disturber. But of course, whats-her-name was "only poking fun" when she called me an ignorant bigot. So very self-righteous. I'm always provoking people.
Get your snout out of Dark Jester's ass dude. Seriously. Dispute me on the facts (if you can). If your brain is equal to the task. Or lay another "Umm.. ok we got it the 1st time" line on me. Cheesy cop-out of an inferior intellect.
I'm a "ranter", I'm a "bigot", I'm "ignorant", I'm a "troll"... I love it. Gimme more.
XG
oh here it comes... part deux to the "Uhh... ok we got it the 1st time" response...
pt. 2:
"don't you understand if you keep discussing this with him you'll only provoke him more. clearly we're intellectually elite cuz he's a (YOUR CHOICE OF THE ABOVE)."
predictable as always.
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
Ah, XeroG, let me guess: You have Dirk Benedict's picture on your pillowcase.
But, fine...I'l bite. Here's part 2 (since you suggested it):
No, didn't say you were only allowed to post if you liked the show. Others on here have also stated that they don't enjoy it.
The difference being you're just going on and on. We understand your position. If you have nothing to add...move on.
What "facts" are there to contest you on? I see a lot of opinion, which you are entitled to, but no facts. I was trying to be civil, and you go and attack my intellect. Feel free to do so, but realize that it pretty clearly reveals where you stand in that regard.
And I'm not going to throw out the "don't provoke him" line you brought up. If you want to make an ass of yourself by going apeshit over a show you don't like, more power to you. Just know, I'm laughing the whole time.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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While I do agree with you, XG, that this season's episodes seem to be really weak (especially the "pro-Cylon" resistance movement you mentioned - how the HELL does something like that even start up after probably trillions of people have been slaughtered), I do have to say that overall it's been a pretty good show. The characters are interesting and flawed and while the acting isn't perfect, it's not that bad either. The new designs are cool and updated (though the old looking Vipers are still my favorite).
And as someone else mentioned, the point of science fiction is to make you think about modern day issues while masking it in a fantastical world. Always has been, always will be. I can see your point to some extent on Galactica (especially the beat you over the head abortion episode a couple weeks ago which they didn't even bother to hide in some sci-fi allegory), but the overall storyline is really well done and I think that's what made the human Cylons a necessity. It's a post-911 enemy within/paranoia story, and I really don't think it beats you over the head with it - it just makes you think about it. Though the kid in me does miss the old Cylons and I hope they make an appearance at some point.
I think the biggest problem here is that you're far too dedicated to the old school. Glen Larceny (he has that nickname for a reason) is not that talented. You keep saying that without network interference, he would have created the most brilliant sci-fi show ever. Well, looking at his track record ( http://imdb.com/name/nm0488991/ - also, if you'll notice, he has a consulting producer credit for the new Galactica so I guess he's kind of the same "whore" Richard Hatch is, eh?) I have to honestly say that I think you'd be very very wrong. It was a great show to watch and enjoy as a kid, and I still have a special place in my heart for it, but it's lack of any complicated characters or plots and extreme cheese factor don't make it stand the test of time.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:
... But you called my friend a jackass for no good reason, 'cept perhaps she poked fun at you.
How sweet DarkJester
Jester
KnibbletI appreciate the tilting at windmills for me, Jester. But you shouldn't waste your time or breath on windmills. Save it for those with pose a real danger - or argument for that matter.
I also appreciate the history lesson from you, Xero.
How else would I ever have known that you were comparing Gaius Baltar to Gaius Julius Caesar. Of course, the original Baltar didn't have a first name that I remember nor did the writers EVER compare him to any of the Caesars.
The original Baltar was a weak man who thought he was betraying his entire species for his own personal gain. The only reason he lived past the pilot was that the Cylons figured out their pet might make himself useful.
The Battlestar Galactica you remember so fondly never happened. You can extrapolate from other writings how it might have turned out without network interference - but you'll never know.
What I do know is that I watched it when it was on but winced at the heavy cheese sauce that covered everything.
I'm sorry that the wardrobe folk for the new show didn't think to design thousands of original suits and outfits for the program. Dammit! Too bad the producers of Serenity made a piece of crap and didn't bother to go to the effort of designing all original clothing. I'm going to have to notify Mr. Universe that you noticed his Wrangler jeans despite the plastic tag being removed.
One of the problems with science fiction on screen is the costumes. If the designers move too far away from what "we" wear, they risk the characters being mocked for dressing like dorks. All of the doofus alien civilizations on Star Trek come to mind. They all seemed to have societal uniforms. "Look at us. You can tell me live on Gibralter 4 because of our loose fitting trousers tucked into our boots and the same gray tunic tied at the sleeves."
The best way to go about it is to adapt what "we" are wearing. The flight suits are gorgeous btw and heck, they even have g-suits and shields over their helmets. What an idea!
The original flight helmets always made me think of the Egyptian Sphynx to go along with all of the other ancient mythological references.
Xero, I again raise the specter of your never-ending bigotry. First thing you'll learn when you leave Jr. High is ... using 'gay' as a slur immediately informs your audience that you're a pillock.
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I see where everyone is coming with a lot of these arguments, but anyone who made the same tired comment about the new Gaius Baltar being weak immediately loses all credibility, because they obviously aren't using any sort of objective analysis.
What's more believable: a larger than life villain who leads an army of robots to... what? To take control? By destroying everything he wanted to control? Is there any actual human emotion that would cause someone to lead an army of robots against all of humanity? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, not under any circumstances.
Or is it more believable to have a character who is flawed by his own self-obsession and his own passions, so that he's willing, not to sacrifice humanity, but to risk its sacrifice, to get what he wants? And then he starts to crack under the strain of it, knowing he's responsible for such atrocities.
No, I'm sorry, having more than one dimension doesn't make a character weak. In fact, it's the thing that made Firefly so great--the characters all existed within the range of real human emotions. Their goals and feelings were goals and feelings that real people could have. With the possible exception of the Blue-Hands, it always blurred the lines between heroes and villains.
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When the 1st BSG came out I loved it, and could not wait to watch the next episode. At the time I didnt know that it was cheesy, I just loved it. I loved the costumes, the fighters,the battlestar itself, and I loved the characters even though they werent very realistic...it was pure entertainment for me.
Then the new BSG came out and I watched the mini-series when itunes offered it up for downloading. I have to say that I was hooked with this new child of the original BSG right off the bat. It is well done, and I love the new remake of Starbuck and Boomer. I'm not sure if I like the new Apollo, but I have to say that he is much better than the original. I even like the new and very flawed Colonial Tigh, and I just love Commander Adama! I also like the fact that they have a president on the ship. This new BSG blows the old one out of the water. Everyone is SO flawed in this new remake...it makes it so real
This new BSG is dark and scary, and real. Its gritty and cold. I love the new self-absorbed Gaius Baltar, who has SIX (a cylon woman) talking to him in his head all the time. I love what they did to the Cylons...totally great, but I'm still uncertain exactly what their ultimate plan is besides the total elimination of all of humanity.
Starbuck is a totally, wonderful and pathetic character. She reminds me of myself when I was in my 20s. Good at what she does, bucks authority, drinks way too much, and always punches people and ending up in the brig. I like the fact that Boomer is a Cylon who didnt know she was a Cylon until she was activated and tried to kill Adama!
This new BSG is captivating, interesting, deep and a total soap opera, but it is a good soap opera, and well worth watching. I cannot see how the old BSG crowd cannot like this new BSG. Sure, I loved the old Starbuck, but the new one is so much more interesting. I loved the old Vipers and the old Battlestar, but the new ones blow the old ones out of the water. This show is as interesting as Firefly, so I don't know why Xerogravity and a few other people don't like it.
The orignal BSG was great for its time, but this new BSG is what I like to call the ADULT version of BSG...flawed characters, Firefly-like special effects, back-stabbing crew members, mutiny, sex, love, hates, and a race of machines/cyborgs that believes in god, yet want to show that belief right off by trying to wipeout humanity. I also love the fact that a Cylon ship/fighter is a CYLON itself...it was bred to be a fighter or a Baseship. There is this one episode called "Scar" where a Cylon fighter is full of rage and it flies around killing colonial fighters red baron style...what a great concept, a fighter full of rage! This is great stuff and I can't wait for more, and if this makes me a moron...so be it.
My favorite BSG episodes:
Part 4 of the mini-series
33
Flesh and Bone
The Hand of God
SCAR
Resistance
Pegasus
Downloaded
River
Beans and rice?
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