Serenity strikes a blow for conservatism!
POSTED BY: Blinker
UPDATED: Friday, June 9, 2006 07:31
VIEWED: 19576
PAGE 4 of 7
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Bush = Extreme right-winger (redneck idiot)
Bush might be right wing, but extreme? Not by a long shot. And regardless to what he may be at heart, he certainly doesn't govern like any right winger. There's a long list of things he's supported which are contrary to what right wingers believe. Extreme could be used in context as extreme idiot, but certainly not extreme right winger.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bishop76:Quote:
Originally posted by Lookatthatbird:
LOTR was written in the 1950's. It seems to me that a book written 50ish years ago, if it had any political bias in the first place, would be perfectally aplicable to our times.
I still have to disagree with you on this - the 50s were the era of McCarthyism, segregation was still in full swing, and to sum it up, the most liberal thinking back then would be seen as a conservative view in this day and age.
To change gears completely, I think that sometimes people try to look *WAY* too deeply into films for meanings and symbolism that just isn't there...
Wow...I have to disagree with the post tying the LOTR books to modern politics too closely, but I'm not very sure I agree with your reasoning =\ JRR Tolkien was British, for one thing. He wasn't really saying anything at all about the American political climate with regard to McCarthyism or segregation. The armies and events in the books, however, were modeled, with intent, after the things that he saw and experienced while he was a soldier in WWII. He also was pretty careful about his selection of how he depicted the visual aspects of each race, region, or group, and he went out of his way to generalize things some so that the "lessons" could be applied in a larger context.
There is actually quite a bit published about the intended symbolism in the LOTR books, both expository and speculation from English Lit professionals (the people who brought you volumes of specualtion about Hemmingway's writing, who, when questioned directly about the symbolism about one of his writings on a boy after a revelation of a snowfall responded "Symbolism? No, actually, I just wanted to write a nice story about a boy in the snow!") and from Tolkien and his family as well.
Well, was that rambling enough? I'll, uh, go back into the corner and shut up now...
Amiton.
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Wow...I have to disagree with the post tying the LOTR books to modern politics too closely, but I'm not very sure I agree with your reasoning =\ JRR Tolkien was British, for one thing. He wasn't really saying anything at all about the American political climate with regard to McCarthyism or segregation.
First off, I do know he's British, but to be quite honest, I don't know much about the 1950's British political landscape. I was using examples from what I know to show how much things have changed in the past 50 years - an attempt to illustrate that political ideology from back then is not applicable now. I wasn't saying that LOTR ties into either of the examples I gave.
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The armies and events in the books, however, were modeled, with intent, after the things that he saw and experienced while he was a soldier in WWII.
I'm sure that's the case. But experiences from WW2 aren't exactly political ideologies.
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There is actually quite a bit published about the intended symbolism in the LOTR books, both expository and speculation from English Lit professionals (the people who brought you volumes of specualtion about Hemmingway's writing, who, when questioned directly about the symbolism about one of his writings on a boy after a revelation of a snowfall responded "Symbolism? No, actually, I just wanted to write a nice story about a boy in the snow!") and from Tolkien and his family as well.
Well, I'm no Tolkien expert - I just like the books, but that *IS* the quote I was looking for to use in my last message. I couldn't remember who said it, but I remember the quote. I should have known - Hemmingway...
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Why do we have to assign some political agenda to Serenity? Why not just watch the movie say, “Huh, that was a really good movie,” and watch it again? As Zoe said, “Don’t sully this.”
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Some of you seem to be misapprehending my purpose in being here.
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The armies and events in the books, however, were modeled, with intent, after the things that he saw and experienced while he was a soldier in WWII.
Actually, it was WWI. Tolkien was in the trenches and lost several of his closest friends to that dreadful war.
People often asked him, or tried to claim that LotR was a commnetary on WWII, or that the ring represented nuclear technology, etc., but Tolkien always vehemently denied this, insisting that there was no allegory intended.
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Start with the part where Jayne gets knocked out by a 90 pound girl. 'Cause I don't think that's ever getting old.
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Umm I don't know if anyone has pointed this out in the thread yet (haven't read the replies yet, I'm lazy).... But I think Joss Whedon is Liberal himself...
He's said himself he think's guns are 'disgusting'. Conservatives love guns... I know... I'm a conservative... We just bought two more guns today... We're about half way to having 40 guns in this house.... Not me though I'm only 16 :P. My Dad's guns is what I mean.
And I just read a couple and SimonWho... Believe me... Only the liberals applauded... No Conservative would applaud to insulting George W Bush, errr when it comes to 99% of the stuff he does anyway.
"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dinky:
Umm I don't know if anyone has pointed this out in the thread yet (haven't read the replies yet, I'm lazy).... But I think Joss Whedon is Liberal himself...
He's said himself he think's guns are 'disgusting'. Conservatives love guns... I know... I'm a conservative... We just bought two more guns today... We're about half way to having 40 guns in this house.... Not me though I'm only 16 :P. My Dad's guns is what I mean.
And I just read a couple and SimonWho... Believe me... Only the liberals applauded... No Conservative would applaud to insulting George W Bush, errr when it comes to 99% of the stuff he does anyway.
"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks
Well, SOME conservatives love guns. I'm a conservative, and I don't own a single gun (as far as you know
) Nor do I subscribe to any gun magazines, or belong to any gun clubs. I don't even hunt. I have nothing against guns, per se. It's just an object.....But I do enjoy a playing Halo2 on XBLive, does that count?
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Bishop76:Quote:
Wow...I have to disagree with the post tying the LOTR books to modern politics too closely, but I'm not very sure I agree with your reasoning =\ JRR Tolkien was British, for one thing. He wasn't really saying anything at all about the American political climate with regard to McCarthyism or segregation.
First off, I do know he's British, but to be quite honest, I don't know much about the 1950's British political landscape. I was using examples from what I know to show how much things have changed in the past 50 years - an attempt to illustrate that political ideology from back then is not applicable now. I wasn't saying that LOTR ties into either of the examples I gave.Quote:
The armies and events in the books, however, were modeled, with intent, after the things that he saw and experienced while he was a soldier in WWII.
I'm sure that's the case. But experiences from WW2 aren't exactly political ideologies.Quote:
There is actually quite a bit published about the intended symbolism in the LOTR books, both expository and speculation from English Lit professionals (the people who brought you volumes of specualtion about Hemmingway's writing, who, when questioned directly about the symbolism about one of his writings on a boy after a revelation of a snowfall responded "Symbolism? No, actually, I just wanted to write a nice story about a boy in the snow!") and from Tolkien and his family as well.
Well, I'm no Tolkien expert - I just like the books, but that *IS* the quote I was looking for to use in my last message. I couldn't remember who said it, but I remember the quote. I should have known - Hemmingway...
Didn't mean to come off as an ass, Bishop
I hope I didn't offend.As for it being WWI, I thought that was right, but I second guessed myself because of the date thing. My bad. I could also have *sworn* that it was stated explicitly that the framework for the books was after the war. I'm sure there wasn't an intentional political voice to it (both he and his contemporary C.S. Lewis seemed more interested in messages than agenda), but...well, anyway, if I'm wrong then it wouldn't be counted as a first by any stretch =p
Amiton.
I think this might become my signature...if I ever decide to start having a signature.
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Rather than point at things and say, "that is conservative," and "that is liberal," I think we should define what those words mean first.
Such words have many different meanings depending on those who hear them and those who speak them. What appears to be happening currently (which is utterly terrifying to me) is that the words are being 'pruned' of meaning by all political sides and especially such sources as CNN and Fox, to have very nebulous but emotional meanings.
Conservative = willing to fight for what you believe in and to look to the past as a fine example/neo-con arrogance determined to drown out dissent and endorse conformity with thought-police and railroad us into a corporate oligarchical state.
Liberalism = constant questioning of perceived notions and the desire to change the system for a more inclusive better and allow more freedom of expression while remaining critical of authority/bleeding heart traitrous apologists who prefer to dither, accuse wantonly and flip-flop while the country falls apart around them.
The above aren't those definitions. They are finer shades and some have good traits and some have bad - but for humanity the sooner we stop labelling people and ideas, dismissing them as being part of some great opposition, and instead actually listen to proposals, grievences and warnings, then the frakking better.
Firefly and Serenity aren't conservative. They aren't liberal. They are completely human and true, however.
They do teach me to make a stand even if it offends, they do teach me to be suspicious of the motives of government and corporation, they do tell me that there will always be a price, they do say that sometimes you have to tear down your own beliefs and embrace anothers, and sometimes you have to fight to preserve your own.
It is neither pro or anti-Republican, pro or anti-Democrat, why do you think it is so hugely popular all over the world? It has nothing to do with your politics. It has everything to do with how we compromise and make stands and love and hate and fight and make peace.
And how we try not to just LIE DOWN.
I hate this arguement that goes on about it being for the right wing or left wing.
If Orwell were alive today he would give ALL the US media a good slapping though, that I do believe.
"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Dinky:
Umm I don't know if anyone has pointed this out in the thread yet (haven't read the replies yet, I'm lazy).... But I think Joss Whedon is Liberal himself...
He's said himself he think's guns are 'disgusting'. Conservatives love guns... I know... I'm a conservative... We just bought two more guns today... We're about half way to having 40 guns in this house.... Not me though I'm only 16 :P. My Dad's guns is what I mean.
And I just read a couple and SimonWho... Believe me... Only the liberals applauded... No Conservative would applaud to insulting George W Bush, errr when it comes to 99% of the stuff he does anyway.
"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks
Well, SOME conservatives love guns. I'm a conservative, and I don't own a single gun (as far as you know
But I do enjoy a playing Halo2 on XBLive, does that count?
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
Nope... Just means you have bad taste in games and game devices. :P
"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks
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