Real World Event Discussions

MR. CHENEY DID NOT LIE!

POSTED BY: Ruxton
UPDATED: Friday, February 24, 2006 03:03
VIEWED: 9410
PAGE 8 of 9

KHYRON

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Hey, I caught that dissing of the republicans. I represent that remark. I think that actually, the assholes are evenly split. I don't think I'm one of them. But then, no one does think of themselves as one of the assholes.

Lol, not sure if I missed a post or two, but were you talking about this?

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
I just realised something: this is what RWED would be like if we didn't have AURaptor, Hero, dreamtrove and the pirates (i.e. the people who tend to put their foot in it in one way or the other)... we'd be reduced to fixing each other's grammar and spelling.

There's no way I'd count the pirates as republican, and you're somewhere slightly right of middle, but not necessarily republican either, to my mind at least. And definitely not an asshole, by 'foot in it' I meant that you and the others sometimes go a bit too far with some of your statements, which gives other people a reason to debate. Without you guys, there probably wouldn't be any debates in RWED, at least not any fun ones. So it's all good

RUXTON

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:42 AM

One more item, boys and girls, for the truly interested: I did lots of shotgun pattern testing last summer. One of my guns, a 12-bore double choked Full and Full, puts ALL of its 1-1/4 ounces of shot -- every damned pellet -- from each barrel INSIDE a 30-inch-diameter circle at FORTY (40) yards.

Claims of 12-foot spreads from a full-choked ANYTHINGs at 30 yards are ENTIRELY BOGUS!

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:

Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Hey, I caught that dissing of the republicans. I represent that remark. I think that actually, the assholes are evenly split. I don't think I'm one of them. But then, no one does think of themselves as one of the assholes.

Lol, not sure if I missed a post or two, but were you talking about this?

Yeah, I got that, and then all the subsequent "Yeah, good thing those schmucks aren't around" banter.

Quote:
There's no way I'd count the pirates as republican, and you're somewhere slightly right of middle, but not necessarily republican either, to my mind at least. And definitely not an asshole, by 'foot in it' I meant that you and the others sometimes go a bit too far with some of your statements, which gives other people a reason to debate. Without you guys, there probably wouldn't be any debates in RWED, at least not any fun ones. So it's all good .

Lol, yeah, no, I wouldn't call them republicans. I'm solidly republican, but in a north east kind of way. I definitely support my corner of the republican party, and am maybe to the right of it, siding sometimes with the southerners, but this doesn't really make me any closer to Bush. I'm not sure Bush is at all republican, but what he gets from it is this christian extremism which is part of the party in Texas, but not around here. Trade/economic issues are extremely important in the NY GOP. I think there are some people in Texas who get this too, Ron Paul et al, but they have a heavy infection of christian looney.

By contrast, the NY Dems official position right now is they want to raise taxes to fund an expansion of state govt. Since we already have the highest taxes in the nation, I think this would be a bad idea. It doesn't effect me personally, but jobs flee NY like rats deserting a sinking ship, and it's all due to our unfavorable tax structure, which was a result of years of Cuomo, who was a real knucklehead, and before that Carrey anoter Dem. Cuomo's basic stance on rural areas was "F^&k 'em, they're probably not going to vote for me anyway."

Nationally, I don't think either party has given us much to like in many years. The GOP needs to duck out of thie Bush thing, andneeds to duck out of thie Bush thing, and needs to duck out of thie Bush thing, and b bneeds to duck out of thie Bush thing, and b b

CARTOON

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
But then, no one does think of themselves as one of the assholes.

Just remember this, Dream -- that without that specific body part we'd all be constitipated. So, yes, there's a necessity even for the most unseemly of parts. If nothing else, they help purge us of the crap we'd otherwise all fill up with.

(Darn, I ended with a preposition again -- oh well, I guess it's better than ending with a proposition).

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
24. That's what I would have guessed. I think now with Jenny here you are no longer the youngest.

My oh my. We're chock full of youngin's, ain't we? Someone pass me the walker, please.

At first I thought Dream might've been around my age, but (if I'm not mistaken) Dream stated elsewhere that he got his first computer when he was 13. There weren't any PCs around until I was in my 20's, so Dream's probably younger than me, as well -- (see, I can do basic math).

You can generally tell a poster's age by the certainty with which they declare their beliefs. The younger they are, the more certain they are that they're right and everyone else is -- uh, that unseemly body part (I was that way, myself for a lot longer than I'd care to admit).

The older one gets, they will usually discover at some point that the sun doesn't revolve around them and they are occasionally (and in my case -- more often than not) in error.

The more I learn, the more I realize what an idiot I am, and what an even bigger "unseemly body part" I was when I didn't realize it.

There's hope for all of us -- given enough time.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:55 PM

CHENEY'S GOT A GUN - ANIMATED MUSIC VIDEO

to the tune of "Janie's Got a Gun" by Aerosmith

Flash animation and lyrics by the Bob Rivers Show with Tooned In.

Note the beer cans.

WARNING TO CINDY SHEEHAN! RUN - for US Senate!

MUSIC VIDEO FLASH DOWNLOAD:
www.bobrivers.com/audiovault/downloads/cheneyvid.asp

MUSIC VIDEO VIDEO DOWNLOAD:
www.bobrivers.com/audiovault/downloads/downloads.asp

footnote:

A MOST DANGEROUS GAME WITH ELMER CHENEY

"Cheney was half lying across the plain military issue style desk in an apparent drug stupor as Bush talked. Still wearing his hunting coat and hat, Cheney aimed his rifle at me from the desk and threatened, 'Or a-hunting we will go.' Bush finished Cheney's threat by singing, 'We'll catch a fox and put her in a box and lower her in a hole.' Bush looked at Cheney and burst out laughing. The sight of him dressed in his hunting clothes with a huge bore double-barreled shotgun to his shoulder inspired Bush to tell him he 'looked like Elmer Fudd.' Cheney, imitating the cartoon character, said, 'Where is that waskily wabbit?'"
-Cathy O'Brien, TRANCE Formation of America
http://trance-formation.com
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/most_dangerous_game
.htm

VIDEO DOWNLOAD OF INTERVIEWS WITH CATHY O'BRIEN AND MARK PHILLIPS BY GNN TV:
http://gnn.tv/videos/3/The_Most_Dangerous_Game
http://archive.org/details/tmdg_trailer
http://archive.org/details/tmdg_broll
http://piratenews.org/video-archive.html

"You know what Miami Vice is. Undercover drug agents taking control of the drug industry. A Vice President is just that - an undercover drug agent taking control of the drug industry - for the President."
-Dick Cheney, TRANCE Formation of America

Ronald and Nancy Reagan on drugs:
http://bobrivers.com/audiovault/downloads/files/rrn.wav

"They opened up her skull and cut into her brain... The only reason you do that is to lobotomize somebody... They did it over, and over..."
-Dr Tam

"FUCK CHENEY, ER, I MEAN TO SAY GOD BLESS DICK."

PELLETS PENETRATED WHITTINGTON'S SKULL, SINUSES, HEART AND LIVER:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/18/AR2006
021801147_pf.html
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/153

RUE

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:56 PM

Just out of curiosity I counted the number of pellet-holes I could see in his face and neck (roughly 15). Then ratioing it out (could really only see 1/4 of head) and using body area estimation (below), and accounts of liver and chest penetration but none of arm penetration, he received appx 150 pellets. That roughly dovetails with 200 pellets.

How many pellets are there in a shell?

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/etools/burn-percentage-in-adults.asp

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:

Thanks to "Pirate" for posting that shot of Whittington. I knew my support of him on another thread would come in handy. Whittington's face shows VERY SIMILAR shot spread to what I got on my water jugs, shot at 30 yards. The patterns on his face PRECISELY reflect the shot spread I got on my water jugs. If I could post a picture I'd do so, but I prefer to wait and do so in the legitimate gun press, which will reach quite a few hundred thousand readers, rather than just a few hundred here. (I've already told Mike Rivero and Jeff Rense about this, but neither has acted on it yet.) If Whittington had been half as close as Cheney (correctly) claimed, the pellet marks on his face would be four times as dense, an easily seen thing. He'd also be dead. The pellet that lodged in the wall of his heart would have gone right through. (It almost certainly didn't "migrate" there, per a lengthy discussion with a doctor. It most likely penetrated the chest wall and lodged in the half-inch-thick wall of the heart, and only the next day or so did it cause enough inflammation to give trouble, much as if you stabbed yourself in the thigh with an icepick. The trouble would start from inflammation the next day or two, not immediately.)

To clarify, for the curious and openminded:

Shot velocity doesn't change with gauge. A 28-gauge gun slings its 3/4-ounce "game load" of shot at essentially the same velocity (about 1200-1300 fps) as a game load out of a 20, or 16, or 12, or 10 gauge gun. To put it another way, it does not matter what the gauge of the gun used was, shot velocity will be essentially identical in all gauges. The amount of shot, 3/4 ounce in this case, and the degree of choke (which has never published for Cheney's gun) are what determine the pellet density on the target. The same amount of shot fired from a larger bore will often give superior PATTERNS, meaning more even distribution of shot throughout its spread. (English gunmakers knew this over a century ago.) But three-quarters of an ounce of shot, whether fired from a .410, 28-gauge, 12-gauge, or what have you, will have essentially the SAME VELOCITY at 30 yards, no matter the gauge gun in which it was fired. The only difference may be in the QUALITY of the patterns.

What many don't understand is that a full-choked 12-bore will have a total spread of that 3/4-ounce of shot essentially IDENTICAL with the total spread of 3/4-ounce of shot from a full-choked 28-gauge barrel. This is hard even for many gun owners to grasp, but it is the simple truth. As noted, the shot will probably be more evenly distributed from the 12-bore, but not necessarily. There is no difference in the total spread between the two, and THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER IN KILLING POWER BETWEEN THE TWO!!

This is another point of general ignorance seen across the Internet, and one which many, if not most, do not understand. When dolts don't understand these things, they say things like:

"Alex Jones at least bought the exact model and choke of shotgun, and used same shells as Cheney."

This is clear indication of "Joe Shotgun" thinking he knows something about guns, when he doesn't know JACK SHIT. BTW, the CHOKES of Cheney's gun have NEVER been published, nor was the MAKE of Alex Jones' gun published, but we can be quite sure he didn't pop $6000-$8000 for a Perazzi o/u. So this rant by the Pirate is just more CRAPPO from someone who doesn't know anything about guns, but think that if they make lots of noise and waste lots of space, they just might impress someone.

Even if the velocity is increased at the muzzle from hotter loads, say to 1500 fps, the rapid falloff of velocity would find the pellets from the lower-velocity load not much slower than the hotrod at 30 yards. The big difference in shotguns is the amount of shot each can sling. Some 12-bore loads throw as much as 2 ounces of shot, not the 28-gauge's 3/4 ounce. But that's not what I did. I carefully weighed the shot to get 3/4 ounce. And as you now know, it doesn't matter what gauge gun I f

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RUXTON

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:11 PM

Rue,
There were roughly 262 pellets of #7-1/2 lead shot in Cheney's load. There were 42 pellet strikes on the 9"x6" plastic jug I shot with 3/4-ounce of #7-1/2 shot, and taking into account its smaller area at the neck, it's easy to extrapolate that Whittington could easily have been hit with about 150 pellets.

BOYS AND GIRLS, here's more:
Pape was the first to patent choke-bored guns, which he did in England in 1866. Kimble, in the U.S., also was early with the concept, but the definitive proof of the concept lies with Pape.

"Choke" is a slight constriction of the inside of the muzzle of a shotgun. The effect of this is to improve patterning performance (tighter and/or more-even distribution of the shot), which, as a result, also extend the distance at which the gun can maintain a killing pattern (no holes through which a bird could escape, even though the bird may be within the shot charge). "Full" choke is defined (in most circles) as that degree of constriction that will put 70 percent of the shot charge within a 30-inch diameter circle at a measured 40 yards from the point on which the shooter stands (not measured from the muzzle, note).

One of my Full-choked guns delivers 100-percent patterns. ALL the shot is within that circle at 40 yards.

Just this morning a gunsmith friend asked me what gauge I used for my tests. Another shooting friend phoned me, and when asked how much more densely the shot would strike if the target were half the distance, he replied, "Twice as dense." That is incorrect. The pattern at half the range would be FOUR times as dense, varying with the area of the shot-charge circle, which for simplicity's sake may be considered to travel in a cone shape from muzzle to target. So not only do most laymen know nothing about shotgun power, patterning and performance, neither do many experienced shooters.

RUXTON

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:49 PM

I strongly suggest any gun owners who doubt my test results to simply go out and shoot a jug of water, using only 3/4 ounce of #7-1/2 shot, any gauge you want, velocity about 1200 fps, though velocity really doesn't matter much. At a range of 30 yards, give or take a couple, given a full or modified choke, you'll see patterns identical with that seen on Whittington's face. It's just that simple. No more bullshit. Just go do it.

There is no need for calling others names, nor any need by the woefully uninformed to make lame attempts to justify their self-importance. BTW, when a doctor declares there is no need for surgery, yet a certain poster claims Whittington's skull was penetrated, do you believe that doctor or that poster?

Just go shoot a water jug. Observe the pattern density, which will look like Whittington's face if you shoot at 30 yards, and observe the penetration. No more manure. Just go do it.

For those who care, my test results have been published worldwide continuously, beginning about 30 years ago with many stories in the then-one-million circulation "The American Rifleman," magazine of the NRA. This will be my last word on veracity: I really do know what I'm talking about when I write about any sort of firearm. Pirate, Alex Jones, and a host of others do not. Hope you've all enjoyed this little string.

Go shoot water jugs. Do it. No more crap. End of discussion.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:25 PM

I'm not saying Whitt wasn't shot at 90-feet/30-yards, which MIGHT be true judging by his face. I'm saying your test didn't recreate the exact conditions of the drunken assault. You don't even post an image of your results. I've devastated many targets with a shotgun, but that don't excuse me from being scientific about the Cheney case.

I DARE you to publish your "professional" ballistics report, using the parameters I suggested:

(1) oversize paper targets at 10-foot intervals (10' to 100')
(2) 28-gauge shotgun
(3) 7.5 pellets (both lead and other metals)
(4) 3 chokes sizes
(5) velocity measurement (tough to do on a shotgun)
(6) correction chart for various barrel lengths
(7) 3 different gunpowder loads
(8) table of results
(9) photos of each target with sufficient resolution to see individual pellets, with a ruler included in the photo
(10) Hi-res photo of Whittington's head injuries
(11) videotape of entire test posted for free download, to verify chain of custody

If you REALLY want to be a pro, then use expensive ballistic gelatin at 10-foot intervals, and record the depth of penetration.

"Professional" only means somebody pays you a little paycheck. Prostitutes are professionals, too. So's the cashier at Walmart.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:

BTW, when a doctor declares there is no need for surgery, yet a certain poster claims Whittington's skull was penetrated, do you believe that doctor or that poster?

WHITTINGTON was the one who feared bullets in his skull, as his ER doctors admitted was a possibility, requiring the attention of specialists. Nasal cavities are part of the skull, and are very thin and brittle. Whittington was shot in the face, eyes and nose, where sinus passages are located. If pellets can bypass ribs and reach the heart and liver, they can reach his brain via sinuses. Can an MRI find non-magnetic lead shot? Presumably, an x-ray can see it. That would be an interesting photo...

Mafia hitmen prefer 22-caliber snub-nosed subsonic pistols, firing subsonic "self-silencing" bullets point-blank to the skull, and have no difficulty scrambling brains (Senator RFK shot in back of head by his Mafia bodyguard).

Quote:
First Doctors to Treat Cheney's Victim Lost in Press Coverage

Editor & Publisher
February 17, 2006

"They had arranged the HELO-flight before(Whittington) even showed up," Subnani said. "The emergency room doctor had already decided he should be transferred." Subnani said he disagreed with the decision, believing Whittington could have spent the night in Kingsville.

Asked specifically about this, Dr. Martin refused to comment, "I was not going to question(Whittington's) judgment, though," Subnani said. "He was worried about some of the pellets in the sinuses." He added that the Corpus Christi hospital had doctors better able to diagnose such an ear, nose, and throat problem. "They did not think he should stay," Subnani added, "because this hospital was not really equipped for a trauma case."

That is why some reporters have questioned why Whittington was taken by ambulance to this hospital when he could have just as easily been driven to Corpus Christi right away -- or picked up by helicopter at the shooting scene.

Whittington eventually left the first hospital via helicopter at about 7:45 p.m., Subnani recalled. When asked if Whittington's eventual heart attack indicated that Subnani's original diagnoses that the wounds were not severe was wrong, the doctor defended his determination. "At that age (78), we don't know the extent of his coronary situation," he said. "That is hard to predict, what really caused that arrhythmia."

Subnani added that he has not been interviewed by any law enforcement or investigative agents working on the case. "No one has talked to me," he said.

The ER doc is risking lawsuit for medical malpractice, which ER docs are notorious for. MDs murder 2.5-MILLION Americans every year (weblink in my previous post). Whittington is at HIGH risk of infection from the pellets, or iatrogenic (hospital