Serenity strikes a blow for conservatism!

POSTED BY: Blinker
UPDATED: Friday, June 9, 2006 07:31
VIEWED: 19576
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BREWGRL

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sikkukut:
All that lesbianism, whoring, and atheism, those are some conservative values.

Of course, all the gun rights, distrust of big government, and desire to be out on the frontier really ARE conservative values (and I could probably think of better examples were I conservative), so I'm not sure where that leaves us.

Given the mixed message, I think it's a mistake to hold Firefly or Serenity up as a champion of liberalism or conservatism.

I've heard that one group that generally loved Serenity are the libertarians. I mean, think about it... Mal & Co. just want to be left alone, free to pursue their own messy, human immorality in peace. If that's not libertarian, I don't know what it is.

__________________
To err is human, but computers do it much faster.

Actually, just wanted to point out that distrust of big government is not a conservative value, it is in fact a republican value. There is a difference between being conservative and being a republican. I know many liberal republicans who cringe when they get grouped with the conservatives. Conservatism and Liberalism is more about how you feel about moral issues, while being democratic or republican is about your political philosophy (big national government and lots of social programs versus small localized governments who believe in tax cuts and few social programs)
That being said, firefly certainly has more libertarian leanings as other posters have pointed out, but it is very liberal when it comes to moral ideologies. Frankly any one who can't see that needs to go back to school and take a political science 101 course.

DAVESHAYNE

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by StarSong:
I do believe I've read something in one of his interviews to the effect of he prolly wouldn't get along with Mal at all "in real life."

In the OVC Joss says (among other things), "I've often said that if Mal and I sat down to dinner, we'd have a terrible time."

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

CEDRIC

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:47 PM

(Let me preface these comments by stating that while I lean to the left, I'm currently doing volunteer work for a Republican candidate. So I think that qualifies me as a centrist.)

The person who wrote that article apparently equates conservatism with moral fibre and liberalism with the lack of it--a viewpoint that many people have been duped into accepting by the propagandist conservative media (i.e. Rush Limbaugh and his progeny). Claiming that movies appealing to the middle are conservative is just one more way of attempting to demonize the left.

Fact is, there are moral people on both sides of the divide, and scumbags on both sides. Writers like Joss Whedon, as well as the creators of Team America, understand that. (Team America reminds me a lot of a comment that Robert Anton Wilson once made: "Any fascist regime will eventually appear to be a parody of fascism.")

For the record, the operative's blind faith in his religion/government reminds me a lot of the religious right. I don't think I even need to point out the significance of young River's speech about a government that wants to tell people what to think.

"You can't take my show from me,
Because I've got the DVD."
www.bedlambards.com/Browncoats.html
Ballad of Joss: http://mp3-postcards.com/listen/?888
Big Damn Trilogy: http://mp3-postcards.com/listen/?1010

SIKKUKUT

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 4:59 PM

You hear a lot from both sides about the media bias for the other side. I don't buy it. The media's just trying to sell, which means sensationalizing everything. The bias goes both ways.

As for the original review, if you look at the movies, I think what's astonishing about the last few years at the box office isn't how much conservatism sells-- it's how much *religion* sells. Passion of the Christ is an obvious example, but this December had a lesson as well. I thought for sure that King Kong would beat out Chronicles of Narnia, because everyone I know was excited about it... but I sorely underestimated the power of a movie that could ride the coat-tails of both Lord of the Rings and Passion simultaneously. Faith *sells*. When did that happen?

"Fact is, there are moral people on both sides of the divide, and scumbags on both sides."

Cedric, you are too right. I see people on both sides who disgust and sadden me, and people on both sides who are truly, genuinely good. The common traits among the good ones, at least in my point of view, are compassion and tolerance. Book's the good kind of believer, and the Operative is the bad kind.

Serenity and Firefly were, on the whole, damn good entertainment and truly touching art. That does more for me than propping up an ideology.

__________________
To err is human, but computers do it much faster.

SACREDCHAO

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:04 PM

I feel compelled to echo two sentiments in this thread:
1) Conservatism does not equal Republicanism.
2) If the show was to be forced to wear one label, Libertarian makes the most sense to me.

COPILOT

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:27 PM

There is no lessons to be found in the ‘verse. We all love these characters so much we want them to be on our side. But that was the whole premise these are just people. Different people. People who fight laugh cry and die just like anyone else. No one on that boat believed the same way. Life is full of choices moral and other wise and those choices only serve to keep us occupied while we’re busy not being dead. Just my point of view please don’t hate me.

An I carried such a torch

STARSONG

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:31 PM

Quote:

That being said, firefly certainly has more libertarian leanings as other posters have pointed out, but it is very liberal when it comes to moral ideologies. Frankly any one who can't see that needs to go back to school and take a political science 101 course.

How exactly are you defining this?

For instance, the Core has institutionalized prostitution, legalized marijuana use (ref, "Visual Companion"), and is generally portrayed as "enlightened" "civilized" so forth and so on. State-provided this, State-provided that.. in many ways, so long as you don't look below the surface, it looks to me like a classic leftist/progressive vision of the world.

The Rim/Frontier don't got none of that, but it also doesn't have folk spying over every little thing they do. It's much freer, but that freedom has a cost.. the strong do at times take advantage over the weak (Heart of Gold, Jaynestown). Sad little kings set themselves up on a whole bunch of sad little hills. For all its flaws, it seems to me the prototypical laissez-faire conservative vision of the world. Make your own way, don't count on no one for any handouts, but help those in need (out of your own pocket). Watch your neighbor's back, and he'll watch yours.. but stay out of each other's business best you can.

So far, that doesn't strike me as political one way or another -- rather a fairly realistic of the way things are. The farther you move from "civilization" the more freedom you can (potentially) have... but there ain't no safety net but your neighbors, and there's more than a little danger of losing everything, whether by simple mischance or a more powerful neighbor taking your stuff.

So far as values in the show itself.. we see the 'verse mostly through the eyes of a man raised in the latter environment, who had everything he valued ripped from him by those from the former. That doesn't mean he's always right, or sees things in a clear light. The Alliance, like America, Joss reminds us is a force for great good as well as great harm. I believe Joss's words were something to the effect of "they can be the America of WWII as well the America of VietNam. But Mal can't see that because he's VietNamese"

Now.. I don't see outright liberal values (so far as I understand them, meaning support for helping folks via state-run health care, income "insurance," goodies of all one kind or another, along with strict regulation of commerce) as being celebrated in the show. What I *do* see is concern for one's neighbor and sticking together as a family in tough times- and those are *human* values, which belong to neither party nor any particular political point of view. (Don't believe that, check out the charity stats sometime, you might be surprised).

If anything, the "stand on your own two feet, even if it leaves you stranded in the black" attitude of Mal seems VERY socially conservative to me. Ditto his love for Inara as a person, but strong dissaproval of her profession. But then again... Mal ain't the whole of Firefly by a long stretch. I'd argue a big part of its appeal is how it manages to accurately portray people being people.. and that even good people can do bad things for what they think are good reasons.

"We meant it for the best"

NUCKLES87

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:36 PM

Your a fool if you think Serenity/Firefly lean either conservative or liberal.

It's a mix of both. Everyone on the boat has their own ideals, thus some are liberal, some are conservative.

How's my firefly speak? Good? Bad? Fee-oo?

...It's fee-oo isn't it?

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:08 PM

"I've heard that one group that generally loved Serenity are the libertarians."

Well, this registered libertarian LOVES Serenity :D

And yes, the Operative does remind me of some of the religious types I have run in to over the years.

But the whole "Lets meddle and make people better against their will"...well, that reminds me of some of my liberal associates. They know what's best for you. Just ask them! LOL

I am an athiest Libertarian married to an athiest Republican. In many ways we don't really fit well with the Republican mind set, but the left..well...they are just wacky!

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:18 PM

I think it's a mixed bag that our BDHs are offering, and is neither wholy conservative or liberal. That's why I think it has such a wide cross section of support.

Wash was right when he said that if everything were right, they'd be in jail...being crooks and all.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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