MR. CHENEY DID NOT LIE!
POSTED BY: Ruxton
UPDATED: Friday, February 24, 2006 03:03
VIEWED: 9410
PAGE 7 of 9
Cartoon, HONEST! I sent ya one. Nice and flexible, too. Pull it and watch it stretch into even more money.
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HAKEN, or whoever: Great thanks to the moderators for moving this thread to its proper location.
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SignyM,
I have mixed feelings about the delay in C's reporting/fessing up. First, Whittington could well and easily have died. In that case, C would have been up for something like Negligent Manslaughter, and anything he may have said before the guy died could most likely have been used either to help convict him, or to support a likely lawsuit by the surviving family. Therefore, I suspect C was waiting to see just how bad it was going to turn out before he committed himself. And when he did, to his credit he took FULL blame, as he ought to have.
The alcohol question, including his admission to one beer (how big?) (heart medication?) will always remain a mystery. Was he plastered? Mebbe. Did he break one of the four fundamental gun-safety laws? Absolutely. In any case, this thread was by no means intended to give C or the administration a pass on any of its heinous and ongoing crimes. It was strictly to quiet a bunch of raving dunces who were apparently being taken as "experts" around the Internet. I simply verified that Cheney did not lie about the approximate distance of the errant shot.
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Lissa:
I'm 24.
Ruxton:
Thanks, sometimes I wish I had my Humour and Tolerance...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retarded Moron Traitor Terrorist (aka Ruxton):
As some of you know, I test guns for a living and have done so for a great many years. I took exception to the claims made online recently (and discussed at length in various strings here on FFF.net) by a pack of so-called experts (Alex Jones/Infowars), who said Cheney lied. In fact, the testers lied.
There are currently many rumors and claims by "experts" circulating on the Internet that say Mr. Cheney lied about the range at which he shot Mr. Whittington. I do not particularly like Mr. Cheney, but have determined he was telling the truth:
MY OWN TESTS:
I just now, 3:45 PM, 2/19/06, performed the following tests. I used thin plastic gallon jugs full of water. On my range, at a measured 30 yards, I shot one jug with #7-1/2 shot, and the jug nearly exploded. Many shot pellets (about 50) remained inside the jug. Many more had gone through a full six inches of cold water and penetrated the far side of the jug.
Not content, I filled another plastic water jug with water at about 100 degrees, the approximate temperature of a man. I then covered the jug with three layers of cotton clothing. This time I used a precisely measured charge of 3/4-ounces of #7-1/2 shot, and hit this second jug from a measured 30 yards (not feet!). The jug was again fully penetrated several times, the pellets having traversed three layers of cotton clothing, 0.015" of plastic, six inches of water, and another 0.015" of plastic.
Thirty-seven (37) pellets remained inside of the jug, and the far side of the jug -- six inches of through-water penetration -- was very badly damaged from the shot where it didn't penetrate the last layer of plastic. In case readers don't know, water penetration is a VERY tough test of terminal ballistics, and far better than the cardboard" or rubber dummies or dead chickens (frozen?) used in the so-called experts' test.
The bottom line here is there is absolutely no reason to doubt what Mr. Cheney said. He shot Mr. Whittington at about 30 yards. There is neither controversy nor coverup here. Ballistics don't lie.
As my doctor/hunter friend (who was entirely correct in his assessment of the potential damage that could be done by #7-1/2 pellets at 30 yards, and which I doubted until today) put it, if Whittington had caught the full charge, or had been much closer to Cheney, he'd be dead. As it is, he's lucky to be alive.
Hey Moron - do you have any idea what gauge shotgun you were allegedly shooting? Do you know what gauge is? Do you know the difference between a 410, 28 and 12 gauge? Here's a tip - put the gun to your head and pull the trigger, then get a helper to measure the size of the hole. Then we will know what size shotgun you used in your "professional ballistics test".
BTW, medical doctors reported on TV that Whittington was hit by about 200 pellets, which means he was closer that 90 feet. And they don't know how many bounced off his glasses, plastic vest and clothing.
CHENEYS' GOT A GUN
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Harry Whittington Shooting Ballistics Tested, Cheney shot at Whittington from 15-20 feet, not 90 as claimed (one day prior to video of Whittington's peppered head)
www.infowars.com/articles/us/cheney_shooting_scientific_proof.htm
Mirror Download:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/8579.php
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/cheney-ballistics_test.wmv
FIRST VIDEO OF WHITTINGTON AFTER GETTING SHOT IN HEAD BY CHENEY, SIX DAYS AFTER HOLE IN HEAD AND HEART ATTACK. BROWNNOSING BUTTKISSER IS NOT A HAPPY CAMPER! VIDEO DOWNLOAD:
www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/17/cheney/index.html
www.CrooksAndLiars.com only keeps videos for a week or 2. Updated video links for mirror downloads:
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Drunk Dick shoots Republicon in head 2-time DUI convict Cheney dodges deputies for 12 hours. Psycho serial killers play The Most Dangerous Game.
video: windows media at 3.7 MB
http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/dick_cheney_shoots_lawyer.wmv
ht
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Quote:
Thanks, Ruxton.
I like putting to rest a conspiracy theory just as much as exposing one.
In the end, all we want are answers, right?
But his utimate aim of world domination still bothers me Chrisisall
As usual, my post is redundant. Chris said it, including the domination thing. But Mr. Jones is not exactly a credible source, and I thought mistaking 30y for 18f was a bit much. I can see cheney saying yards and meaning feet, or mistaking 90ft for 60ft, people are bad judges of distance. Anyway, thanks for the correction.
I think the estimate of shots hitting Whittington is now 200, so that would bode for a slightly closer than 30 yards, but again, very hard thing to judge. Calling 15 feet 30 yards would have been a lie.
One slight remaining snag. The statistical chances of hitting Mr. Whittington at random head towards astronomical as you move Cheney farther away. At 90y I would think it was statistically impossble unless Cheney was aiming for Harry. I guess there's more to think about.
I think that this is one of those areas we were talking about where it isn't politics to talk about the ballistics of the accident.
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Quote:
Grammatically, it would work better to have 'to' be the last word in you sentance.
Chris, I think this is the fourth time, but "sentence" ... still spelled with an "e"
Hey, I caught that dissing of the republicans. I represent that remark. I think that actually, the assholes are evenly split. I don't think I'm one of them. But then, no one does think of themselves as one of the assholes.
Citizen,
24. That's what I would have guessed. I think now with Jenny here you are no longer the youngest.
Pirate,
You're a good guy. Try being less hostile. Chances are that Ruxton is not lying, he's got no reason to lie, and nothing to gain by it. He knows we aren't going to go and vote Cheney into office in '08, even if he ran, which he's not going to.
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Our crooked copsters here in Knoxville Tennessee are no better than in Texas. They've fumbled the ball so many times, when they could have arrested Bush & Cheney when they fly into Knoxville International Cocaine Airport. But then, our former mayor was Bush Jr's Skull & Bones coffinmate and fellow cheerleader at all-male Yale (now he's ambassador to Poland), and the owners of our Scripps Howard media mafia cartel are members of Bohemian Grove.
For ANYBODY to support Cheney in ANYTHING he does is criminal, insane, and suicidal. Ruxton's "pro ballistics test" is a joke. Alex Jone's at least bought the exact model and choke of shotgun, and used same shells as Cheney. Then he presented his results to the public, which is more than the "news" media did. Jone's test ain't perfect. He needs hi-res photos of the target hits, and he needs to do the test at 5-yard increments, with 5-foot by 5-foot targets that include human outlines, in order to count the full spread of pellets. Then simply post a table with the number of hits on each target and within each body's outline, for each barrel (it had 2 different choke sizes, and we don't know which one Cheney fired - or both barrels). Without crime scene photos of Whittington with his shirt off, before doctors cleaned him up, and without the medical reports of exact number of wounds and pellets recovered, we're all reduced to making educated guestimates.
At any rate, to not arrest Cheney for this crime, is to let the lead hijacker of 9/11 escape. It's like dropping the winning touchdown pass in the Superbowl. DOH!
Here's video from the 9/11 Commission of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta (from Lockheed Martin) testifying as eyewitness to Cheney ordering the military to stand down and allow the jet (robotic Boeing A3 Skywarrior) to hit the Pentagon:
www.911truthmovement.org/archives/2005/07/post.php
"We applied the cortico-electrodes but were unable to get a neurological response."
-Jayne
FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO:
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/01/8310.php
(Mal demonstrates correct way to make a head shot)
http://cagle.com/news/CheneyShoots/
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The real problem with Jones' test is that the area and concentration of impact is unknown. Since the circle is not on center, but on the edge of whittington, and it is not a perfect circle, it would be hard not to say impossible to judge the actual area of impact. It could have been a nine foot circle with whittington in. It could easily have been an 18 inch to 36 inch circle with whittington in it.
Now I'm not a hunter, so someone else has to fill in here, but is the force of Cheney's weapon known? Can he alter that force with the same gun by altering quanitity or quality of the explosive? There just so much here that would need investigation.
My gut temptation is to side with Ruxton. Logically, if Cheney is standing 15-18 feet from Whittington, and shoots, and the entire shot hits Harry Whittington squarely in the chest and head, it would probably have killed him. A fair amount of shot probably went off to the side.
I think it's pretty clear that Cheney tried to keep a lid on the story, and that that effort may have hurt Mr. Whittington's recovery or increased his scarring and heart risk, and that the Armstrong woman is just plain lying. But, and I say this with not only contempt for the policies of the Vice President, but the feeling that he is really truly an ass, and even as he does it trying to sound magnanimous as he takes responsibility for his actions, Cheney is probably pretty much telling the truth.
People have an aversion to lying. Cheney says "One beer" he probably had more to drink, but it's probably technically true, only one beer was taken by Cheney and drunk start to finish. Even when they are lying to make case for public policy, they seldom lie outright. It's just not human nature to do so. Most people bend the truth, omit things which don't support their case, but don't actually outright lie most of the time.
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Thanks to "Pirate" for posting that shot of Whittington. I knew my support of him on another thread would come in handy. Whittington's face shows VERY SIMILAR shot spread to what I got on my water jugs, shot at 30 yards. The patterns on his face PRECISELY reflect the shot spread I got on my water jugs. If I could post a picture I'd do so, but I prefer to wait and do so in the legitimate gun press, which will reach quite a few hundred thousand readers, rather than just a few hundred here. (I've already told Mike Rivero and Jeff Rense about this, but neither has acted on it yet.) If Whittington had been half as close as Cheney (correctly) claimed, the pellet marks on his face would be four times as dense, an easily seen thing. He'd also be dead. The pellet that lodged in the wall of his heart would have gone right through. (It almost certainly didn't "migrate" there, per a lengthy discussion with a doctor. It most likely penetrated the chest wall and lodged in the half-inch-thick wall of the heart, and only the next day or so did it cause enough inflammation to give trouble, much as if you stabbed yourself in the thigh with an icepick. The trouble would start from inflammation the next day or two, not immediately.)
To clarify, for the curious and openminded:
Shot velocity doesn't change with gauge. A 28-gauge gun slings its 3/4-ounce "game load" of shot at essentially the same velocity (about 1200-1300 fps) as a game load out of a 20, or 16, or 12, or 10 gauge gun. To put it another way, it does not matter what the gauge of the gun used was, shot velocity will be essentially identical in all gauges. The amount of shot, 3/4 ounce in this case, and the degree of choke (which has never published for Cheney's gun) are what determine the pellet density on the target. The same amount of shot fired from a larger bore will often give superior PATTERNS, meaning more even distribution of shot throughout its spread. (English gunmakers knew this over a century ago.) But three-quarters of an ounce of shot, whether fired from a .410, 28-gauge, 12-gauge, or what have you, will have essentially the SAME VELOCITY at 30 yards, no matter the gauge gun in which it was fired. The only difference may be in the QUALITY of the patterns.
What many don't understand is that a full-choked 12-bore will have a total spread of that 3/4-ounce of shot essentially IDENTICAL with the total spread of 3/4-ounce of shot from a full-choked 28-gauge barrel. This is hard even for many gun owners to grasp, but it is the simple truth. As noted, the shot will probably be more evenly distributed from the 12-bore, but not necessarily. There is no difference in the total spread between the two, and THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER IN KILLING POWER BETWEEN THE TWO!!
This is another point of general ignorance seen across the Internet, and one which many, if not most, do not understand. When dolts don't understand these things, they say things like:
"Alex Jone's at least bought the exact model and choke of shotgun, and used same shells as Cheney."
This is clear indication of "Joe Shotgun" thinking he knows something about guns, when he doesn't know JACK SHIT. BTW, the CHOKES of Cheney's gun have NEVER been published, nor was the MAKE of Alex Jones' gun published, but we can be quite sure he didn't pop $6000-$8000 for a Perazzi o/u. So this rant by the Pirate is just more CRAPPO from someone who doesn't know anything about guns, but think that if they make lots of noise and waste lots of space, they just might impress someone.
Even if the velocity is increased at the muzzle from hotter loads, say to 1500 fps, the rapid falloff of velocity would find the pellets from the lower-velocity load not much slower than the hotrod at 30 yards. The big difference in shotguns is the amount of shot each can sling. Some 12-bore loads throw as much as 2 ounces of shot, not the 28-gauge's 3/4 ounce. But that's not what I did. I carefully weighed the shot to get 3/4 ounce. And as you now know, it doesn't matter what gauge gun I fired it from.
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