Logical Fallacies in Serenity

POSTED BY: CTHawk
UPDATED: Sunday, February 12, 2006 02:26
VIEWED: 9323
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SMOOF

Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:52 PM

I had to stop reading and respond at this point.

Quote:
3.) I still maintain my theory that Reavers are just like animals. You can turn on the discovery channel and see a bunch of lions lying around together peaceful as a summer breeze, but when they see their prey, their instincts kick in. We've only seen the reavers in predator instinct mode. I'm betting there is a day to day mode as well.

"So, what's going on today, Bob?"
"Oh, nothing Larry. I'm just pondering our existance."
"Oh yeah? Wanna go do some raping and pillaging? Maybe we can shop for new clothes with the "normies" skins!"
"Do I!"

DIANASPR

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:15 PM

Reavers

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE THIS WAY. they had families they loved and so on. The pax made them aggresive, BUT THEY WERE ALREADY ANGRY AT THE SITUATION,they are gettin evenThey have a logic to their killing.

ASARIAN

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:

For the record: The Alliance did not make River "better" -- her intelligence, gymnastic skill, and even her nascent psychic abilities were all existant before they stirred her brains with a fork. What they tried to do was make her more controllable.

I fully agree. :)

I believe the whole making "better" worlds ideology has scarcely little to do with the program River was in.

The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate, added to the air processors to calm the population, and weed out aggression, THAT is the sort of "better worlds" they're trying to build. River, in this context, I am convinced, is not even really in the picture. The "better worlds" thingy is about control of civil populations; to make them more docile, quiet and easy to control, and unlikely to cause trouble. Things went kaboom on Miranda; but it is still precisely the thing Mal worries about, that they will try and do again: "Sure as I know anything, I know this: they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, they'll swing back to the belief that they can make people better."

Serenity starts with this "making better worlds" theme, as we hear young River rebel against it: "People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."

River's training, I'm sure, did fit some obscure purpose in the grand scheme of making "better" worlds. But making River herself "better" never played into any of it, I think.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

CAUSAL

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Murkymerc:
I amended it because I thought I had been way too nice to you after your long rambling attempt to show off at the original posters expense.

Just a note: your perception is that I was showing off. Not the case. I'm sick and gorram tired of people using "logical fallacy" when there isn't one. The long rambling wasn't meant to show off, but to hammer the point to death that there's no fallacy involved.

Incidentally, all the posters are right about the fact that the key thing is the way you correct grammar/punctuation. That being the case, I absolutely refuse to stop--it's not a matter of making people feel bad. It's just that I refuse to accept willful ignorance as an intellectually viable position.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

PDCHARLES

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:36 PM

While we're correcting grammar...

Anyone think about 'verse speak. Pretty sure you guys could have a field day with the FF scripts. Have fun... and please post the amended versions.

I have no qualms with anyone correcting me on any subject even if the respondent is an A-hole. Still don't care.. people come here to enjoy the content: laugh, imagine, reminisce. Petty corrections are useless here.

As far as people being offending by grammar corrections vs. math corrections…..
Math is considered (get ready sci-fi fans) to be the universal language and considered by some more difficult to learn. One, they want to be corrected to belong or they may feel not as ashamed when corrected over math

Grammar to me seems more personal, regional, and nostalgic. More embarrassment ensues if you feel you can’t spell or communicate through words. Too many dialects… Let it be! If it becomes too difficult to read or understand, then ask a question or ignore.

back on topic

Quote:

More dificult for me to swallow is that they haven't all gone flying into the core worlds raping and killing long ago which has lead me to suppose that when they are floating in the empty wastes they are actively trying to supress their tendencies but that eventually the urge to commit the ol' ultraviolence gets too great.

From the PAX debacle, reavers population topped out at around 30,000. If they are smart enough to do all the things mentioned in this thread (flying spaceships, operating equipment); they surely wouldn’t just run into to core and start killing, millions live there, they’d be wiped out. I think they are interested in survival first, obliging their urges second.

U gonna be smart here Riva?!?

ZOID

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:44 PM

Murkymerc wrote:

Quote:
It thing it is how it is done as opposed to the correction itself...

Yeh. buit sum gramer nd spelig is so bed, yu cint tel wut thay iz tryig to saiy...

And Causal was right to point out that arguing something is a 'logical fallacy' when it is not, is really just saying 'this doesn't make sense to me personally'. Trying to pass it off as a provable illogicality is wrong, if that was the intention of the original poster.

I'd like to suspect that the original poster (CTHawk) really wanted to say, 'These things don't make sense to me personally', and just misused the words, 'logical fallacies', 'cuz it sounded smarter.

I do that all the time. Works, doesn't it?

Where CTHawk screwed up was in subsequently making a half-assed attempt at constructing a logical argument to support his/her position.

He/she was asking for it, by being unduly 'know-it-all' in the first place. Causal only administered the much-needed comeuppance; done in as nice -- and rigorous, I might add -- a way as possible.

Officiously,

zoid

P.S.
Causal: The actual sentential calculus made my eyes cross, too. Thanks for the summaries that followed. (zoid pulls Causal's underpants waistband off of Causal's head, but does not help him pluck the overstretched garment from twixt his buttocks. Some things a man's got to do for himself.)

CTHawk: I have personally had the shite kicked out of me on these boards for speculating on physics -- about which I professed no formal education/knowledge from the outset -- so I can sympathize. But, we both deserved the 'corrective' treatment we've received, you and I. I'm still looking for a way to engage in conversation on that topic without being taken to the woodshed every time I ask a question or - ulp! - voice an opinion. I wish you better luck than I've had...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

CAUSAL

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
(zoid pulls Causal's underpants waistband off of Causal's head, but does not help him pluck the overstretched garment from twixt his buttocks. Some things a man's got to do for himself.)

Wow...I was wondering how long that would take! I guess I shall just count myself lucky that I didn't get hung on a fence or somesuch.

*commences undergarment plucking*

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

GIXXER

Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:59 PM

(For PDC)

Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking... (pause for polite laughter) As you may have guessed, I am not a verbose fellow. However, I would like to thank you all very much indeed for being here, and for thinking so favourably of me.

In my opinion, the personal circumstances under which you good people live and work is entirely appalling, and among the worst I have ever witnessed anywhere.

It is a testament to your character that you accepted your lot and coped so admirably with it. And that, ladies and gentlemen, that is something.

G

Aaaargh!...Running too long without containment...become George Lucas...must reach Oscar Ceremony...

CHRISTHECYNIC

Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If someone came here claiming that 2+2=9, we'd waste no time correcting them, yes? But try to correct their misuse of language, and you'll be kicking a hornet's nest.

But that's the point isn't it? Even though he came from a philosophical background what he said is math. The first post was as wrong as 2+2=9, and would get you just as screwed over if you tried to apply it’s base logic in any real world situation.

ZOID

Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:09 PM

Gixxer wrote:

Quote:
Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking... (pause for polite laughter) As you may have guessed, I am not a verbose fellow. However, I would like to thank you all very much indeed for being here, and for thinking so favourably of me.

In my opinion, the personal circumstances under which you good people live and work is entirely appalling, and among the worst I have ever witnessed anywhere.

It is a testament to your character that you accepted your lot and coped so admirably with it. And that, ladies and gentlemen, that is something.

G

See? I like the way Jayne said it better. The 'correct' version is not nearly so heart/rabble-rousing, so politically astute...

Presidentially,

zoid

P.S.
I could see Simon giving that speech, and I could see him catching a gobbet of mud directly in the mush for his trouble, too...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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