They took away Christmas . . .
POSTED BY: kef
UPDATED: Monday, August 25, 2003 00:52
VIEWED: 11614
PAGE 4 of 4
That IS an interesting idea. I don't buy it. River, though deluded, seems to only harbor rancor for one thing: the color blue. She fears Blue hand guys and dislikes Blue Sun. I don't think River'd try to hurt Jayne. Look at the example where River wants to save the guy in the hospital at "ARIEL" she says "I've got to save him" even though its none of her business. Chronology was :
Jayne spits. Simon "can you not do that when we're... Ever?" Jayne hawks and spits. River wanders off grabs knife. Walks right by Jayne and slices RIGHT OVER Blue sun logo.
However, I do have a theory for "He looks better in red."
Jayne is a mercenary. Very bloody type man. He's killed people with guns, with his bare hands, with knives. She might be reading that off him and playing off it. Also her empathic/Psychic power having absolutely no blunting shield might (i'm acceding a bit to the draw from jayne's head thing) have drawn some hostility from Jayne and Simon to add to her little attack.
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Quote:
Originally posted by arcplayer:
When she wakes up and says "A copper for a kiss?", I thought she could be tapping into a Jayne memory of a first kiss. He seemed to be noticing her as a woman when he was reviving the Tams.
Well, he was giving the same look to Simon, so unless Jayne was also noticing Simon as a woman for the first time, I'd tend to disregard that notion.
It seems to me that her waking statement can't really be in reference to Jayne's betrayal. If you watch the process of expressions on her face, she moves from her waking smile to a look of increasing confusion and suspicion, as if she's hearing the thoughts Jayne's having as she surprises him, as if she's hearing his guilty conscience. I suspect she'd have known right then what had occured, if they hadn't been interrupted by Simon's own awakening, and River's subsequent reaction to the drug.
River's mental state is perhaps the hardest aspect of the show to write around. Why, for instance, didn't she see Saffron's betrayal coming? [Of course, Joss wisely kept River offscreen for the majority of that episode, as Edlund and Molina do in Trash.] Why did it take so long - from Ariel to Trash - for River to figure out what Jayne had done, and then communicate it to Simon? She's a hard girl to write around, which is why it works so much better to write for her, as the most River-centric episodes do.
As for why she says "Copper for a kiss," I think that's the only line in the show that River says that I've not been able to make sense of, which has always made me suspect it was more intended to be weird and disturbing ["morbid and creepifying"] than sensical.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gaheris:
That IS an interesting idea. I don't buy it. River, though deluded, seems to only harbor rancor for one thing: the color blue.
I think it's likely less the color than Blue Sun in particular. I mean, she doesn't run around slicing up the lower cabinets in the common area, for instance.
Quote:
Chronology was :
Jayne spits. Simon "can you not do that when we're... Ever?" Jayne hawks and spits. River wanders off grabs knife. Walks right by Jayne and slices RIGHT OVER Blue sun logo.
Let's revisit the chronology in more detail, although I think you're largely correct. If you watch very closely while Jayne is replacing the barrel of the last gun he cleans before he starts sharpening the knife, you can see River is already staring at him. After all, he's holding weapons and wearing a Blue Sun shirt.
Then the camera moves to River [While Inara is saying, "Shouldn't be more than a day or two," and you can clearly see her eyes move from his face - licking the big giant knife, of course - to his shirt.
Then Jayne spits, and the camera moves across River. She is clearly sitting, and not moving to stand; the chopsticks are, in fact, still in her hand.
Then it gets hard, because she's entirely off-camera. But if you work out the timing based on her walking speed in the scene where Jayne spits for the second time, you can see she must have stood up just as Simon begins to speak, and could not have stood in response to his statement.
Then, of course, she slices him in the chest with the knife after getting in out of the kitchen. Obviously, she's cutting the Blue Sun symbol.
As for the intent of her statement, I see nothing to recommend any theory over another. Which don't make speculating any less fun. ;)
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Quote:Not to open up an old can of worms, but if the order turns out to be as Tim Minear indicated, "Trash" comes after "War Stories" - only one episode removed from Jayne's betrayal in Ariel.
Why did it take so long - from Ariel to Trash - for River to figure out what Jayne had done, and then communicate it to Simon?
SergeantX
"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith
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Quote:
Jayne, startled, says "Jesus." Is this a reference to Judas betraying Jesus with a kiss, for thirty pieces of silver?
Even weirder thought, How about Jaynes initals...
Jayne Cobb, JC, Jesus Christ....
old Jayne may be heading toward a more noble end than anyone could guess
" If wishes were Horses, then we'd all be eatting Steak "
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Quote:
Even weirder thought, How about Jaynes initals...
Jayne Cobb, JC, Jesus Christ....
Ha! Didn't even notice that and I'm generally the first to catch that. They do that in a lot of things like in The Outsiders, Johnny's initials are JC and he ends of sacrificing his life for some children he doesn't even know. Good catch.
http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm
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Quote:
They do that in a lot of things like in The Outsiders
I wonder if Mr Wheldon even remembers what some of his influences are, from what I have heard on the internet his is extremely well read. Also I am sure Coppola must have been a bit of a directing influence.
I think Jayne is destined to do alot of fighting against his nature, and it would be an appropriate end for the character.
" If wishes were Horses, then we'd all be eatting Steak "
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Quote:
Even weirder thought, How about Jaynes initals...
Jayne Cobb, JC, Jesus Christ....
He did come from heaven in 'Train Job'. He provided a miracle for the poor in 'Jaynes Town'. He had an idol made of him. He hangs out with a preacher, otherwise known as the Good Book.
You may be onto something....
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Quote:
He did come from heaven in 'Train Job'. He provided a miracle for the poor in 'Jaynes Town'. He had an idol made of him. He hangs out with a preacher, otherwise known as the Good Book.
Mmm, yes, and the Bible says that there should be no idolitry (sp?) like no worshiping statues and stuff and Jayne pushed down the statue in Jaynetown.
http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm
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Add in Jayne's conversation with Book about his religious life in War Stories. I always figured he was just curious about Book's sex life, but maybe he was really interested in the whole St. Jayne bit...
Oh, my God! Who's flying this thing! Oh, right, that would be me...
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