Serenity AS Constitution?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 15:15
VIEWED: 6265
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DREAMTROVE

Monday, January 30, 2006 3:34 AM

Finn,

I agree completely.

The major rights violation that will possibly effect my life is actually not that I will be swept to guatanamo, though that concerns me, torture, execution, no trial. But the new emminent domain law is an absurd violation. The liberals on the court just handed Alito the nod with that decision. This court, too conservative? are you nuts? Okay. So, a little rightward shift might be a little more towards balance. Anyway, I agree with Finn on the Joss stuff too.

That ruling has already turned into ethnic cleansing in New Orleans. Gee, that didn't take long. Now they say 80% of black homeowners will not be allowed back in the city and will lose their property. Home owners. People who own their own homes. Or used to. These were employed folk with lives and homes that they purchased with their own labor and WTF has the govt. done? I think we're now officially living in a kleptocracy.

Telephones and airplanes are passe anyways.

Quote:
Only thing worse than a Liberal Looter is a Neocon Hawk.

Amen to this. The only thing i would add is that there are Liberal Hawks and Neocon Looters also. Or is it Neolib? Can we a agree on a term here. Is neolib a word? No one likes my "Team Evil" declaration, but there gotta be a word for what Hillary and all is. I'm up for Neolib if everyone's in.

FLETCH2

Monday, January 30, 2006 7:14 AM

Panderer

SIGNYM

Monday, January 30, 2006 2:13 PM

Dreatrove- I respect your opinion greatly but this "Team Evil" thing is off-base. If you want to know whether people have a common agenda, just follow the money. The Clintons (both of them) are very much pro-international capital: big supporters of NAFTA and international banks, supporters of the UN, supporters of publically-held businesses. Thus, they had the support of corps like Microsoft and IBM, and the support of shareholders. I think Bill Clinton had a heartfelt belief that international trade would advance the human condition. I think it's a stupid belief and one of the many points I disagreed with him on, but the internationalists liked him because he stabilized the dollar and didn't rock to boat.

The Bush famiy is very much pro-privately-held business and pro-family business: Halliburton, Blackwater, KB&R, GE, oil companies, the Saudis etc. Many internationalists dislike Bush. He foments war and destabilizes the dollar, which is bad for everyone except specific businesses like military contractors and oil speculators. He has not been successful in realizing many international trade agreements, and has appointed one of the most abrasive people you can find in DC to the UN and to the World Bank (Bolton).

I truly dislike Hillary and I would probably be vehemently against most of her plans. Were she to be in power, you would hear me griping long and loud. And I truly dislike Bush -I think he's one of the few unmitigated disasters in our history. But except for the fact that I think they are both disasterous in their different ways they have no connection to each other bc their backers are very different and in some ways antithetical. I think what you're seeing is not Team Evil but the internationalists and stock-holders pulling the plug on the Bush admin.

---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.

DREAMTROVE

Monday, January 30, 2006 3:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Signym:

Dreatrove- I respect your opinion greatly but this "Team Evil" thing is off-base. If you want to know whether people have a common agenda, just follow the money. The Clintons (both of them) are very much pro-international capital: big supporters of NAFTA and international banks, supporters of the UN, supporters of publically-held businesses. Thus, they had the support of corps like Microsoft and IBM, and the support of shareholders. I think Bill Clinton had a heartfelt belief that international trade would advance the human condition. I think it's a stupid belief and one of the many points I disagreed with him on, but the internationalists liked him because he stabilized the dollar and didn't rock to boat.

For once I totally disagree with everything you just said.

1. I thought I laid out the Team Evil thing very well. Hillary, DiFi, Lieberman and Ben Nelson are *not* corrupt politicians. They are Shachtmanite ideologues with close personal ties to the republican Shachtmanite ideologues currently in office.

2. NAFTA and international banks, the UN and publically-held businesses are *all* socialist institutions that Max Shachtman thought were essential to a global social revolution, ie. new world order. None of these have any interest in advancing trade, and they are all completely unnecessary towards that end. In fact, they directly conflict with that end.

3. Clinton's support Microsoft and IBM? I'm sorry, I respect your opnion, I don't mean this to be hostile, but 1. Microsoft anti-trust suit. Not to mention Chrysler sale. Carter Chrysler bailout it yay America, go Carter. Carter sale to Daimler is WTF? Now I can't blame Clinton for this because Bush OK'ed it, but I think they're the same aministration, minus some corrupt energy policiy, but: Lenovo bought IBM PC. Lenovo is a 'favored company' which is Chinese for a 'defacto arm of the govt.'

4. Clinton had no heartfelt beliefs. He had good economic policy because of his deal with Perot, and possibly some good sense of his own to hire talented people. I think Perot particularly pushed for many of these people. Everyone does know that Clinton made the deal with Perot to let Perot set economic policy in order to get in to office, right? I hope this doesn't fall into the realm of conspiracy theory.

5. All you need to find the connection is to read back on each of these people personally, and on some of their friends. Then look at statements where they said the same thing, even if that idea was way outside the mainstream.

Everyone makes deals, and some people, like the Bushes and the Clintons sign those deals in blood. This is what advances them to power. Neither Bill Clinton nor George W. Bush is in a direct way a member of an evil conspiracy for global domination. But they are career people. They got a reputation for keeping to the secret deals they signed, and so evil people used them.

Both put into effect a whole series of things concocted by the wolfowitzes of the world. I don't think either president really cares about the NWO at all. But, they are men of their secret word. What made Clinton not an economic disaster was his secret deal with Perot, and his own not being a moron thing. Bush has the being a moron thing, and no Perot.

But again, and this is where it's worth digging into, the people make deals. Hillary has reworked the Bill deal, and this time it's pretty much pure Bush. If you look at the military agenda of Bush/Clinton there's not really a lot of change. Or any.

None of these people are internationalists. You mean globalists. It's subtle, but the internationalists believe in a table. T.Roosevelt/Taft created the doctring on internationalism, and it was based on the idea that there was a global table at which all disputes could be resolved. This table, by itself has no power. Ideally, it's a place where Osama Bin Laden can sit opposite Vladimir Putin and discuss the Russian school bombing without more than a chucked shoe. Globalist philosophy is almost 180 degrees away from tha

FLETCH2

Monday, January 30, 2006 4:53 PM

SIGNYM, you made the mistake of assuming he's willing to listen.

Team Evil is attractive to him because it means that none of the bad stuff is actually being done by "good conservatives" or "true Republicans" it's all part of a socialist/capitalist conspiracy put together by a man that seems to have been so unable to work with others that he factionalised American Trotskyism into nothing (and that was the nicest thing I could find about him.)

It's like PN's absolute belief that "Jews" are reseponsable for everything. In the same was that PN will invent a Jewish link or Jewish lineage to fit with the "theory" DT will find some link to "Team Evil."

I believe that there are jokers in the pack when it comes to US politics, it can be proven that some of the same money backs both presidential canidates to ensure they have "access" no matter who wins. If you look at what Bush appointees have done at the UN you can not see anything that forwards a Globalist agenda, in fact I suspect that will cost the GOP down the road because international capital needs a stable world.

If DT's theory were correct it would be a conspiracy of dunces because what they DO actually goes against the TE theory. DT would probably suggest a double or tripple fake. My advice is to stop looking to creat a boogie man you can blame your own party's degenerate tendencies on, accept your new faith includes the same kinds of crooks your old one did and fix it.

CITIZEN

Monday, January 30, 2006 6:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Cumhal:
I definitely don’t see Firefly as being Left-wing. I don’t see anything Left-wing about a guy who opposes a “progressive” (Joss’s word) Alliance and fights for his right to be the king in his own castle, instead of being another cog in a huge centralized political machinery.

Actually traditionally Liberals are anti centralised big government and pro personal freedoms and a secular state.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

DREAMTROVE

Monday, January 30, 2006 8:11 PM

Quote:
Actually traditionally Liberals are anti centralised big government and pro personal freedoms and a secular state.

Citizen. Sorry. You can't just redefine the word liberal here. I understand the confusion, we're not from the same country, so there's a confusion. Maybe you're right and we're wrong, but you need a qualifier, like I have often used things like "the American left" to describe a position.

The Liberal Democrats are a right-wing party. Liberal democrats in America are a left wing branch of a left wing party. In england, the Left wing is Labor.

To us, here in the us, liberal is a word meaning generous, and not a word meaning free. If we use a word to mean the political ideology of free, it's libertarian. Everyone on this forum is more or less a libertarian, which is why firefly appeals to us. Even people who come out and stomp for Bush have occassionally identified themselves as libertarians.

In particular, and this is the point, it was in reference to Finn's comment.

Finn here is completely correct. The court is divided into two camps, one called 'liberal', and the other called 'conservative'. This vote came to a left-right split. The conservative right said 4th amendment property rights were a guarantee and the liberal left said that local govts. should have the power to seize land. This not a mater of opinion, it's what happened.

CITIZEN

Monday, January 30, 2006 8:24 PM

On the contrary dreamtrove, I am not the one redefining anything, the right owes it's roots to the Monarchists, that is where the term came from, they were pro- central government and church. I realise the right has changed.

However I said traditionally Liberal and this is thoroughly correct, if you don't believe me look up classical liberalism.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

FLETCH2

Monday, January 30, 2006 9:08 PM

Bullshit!

You will NOT start this "liberal means generous, Libertarian means free" bullshit any more. 5 people told you that was rubbish, people who actually know latin explained to you in detail that it has the same root, we showed you the dictionary definitions from something that wasn't wiki and therefore is a credible source and you still ignore it.

Stop it right now.

CITIZEN

Monday, January 30, 2006 9:11 PM

Are you talking to me?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

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