REHASHING OLD TOPICS:JAYNE: TRAITOR or REPENTOR?

POSTED BY: TragicStory
UPDATED: Monday, August 11, 2003 19:38
VIEWED: 6064
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TRAGICSTORY

Monday, July 28, 2003 3:23 PM

Since we have seen all the new Firefly we can until Dec. (Fuckin' Fox Executive Fux) I raise the debatable question once again: Was Jayne a traitor throughout Ariel or did he see the error of his way and try to help Simon and River? and if so before or after he was denied the bounty? Finally, do you think he would betray them again?

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"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

FERAL

Monday, July 28, 2003 4:03 PM

Jayne betrayed them all the way. Had he been repentant, he would have not said "I'm sorry mal, the money was just too good." A truly repentant man, by definition has to confess... to the persons he's wronged... the only reason he has not sold them up the river AGAIN is simple... HE IS SCARED OF MAL... And, honestly, if he could get away with it... he'd do it again in a heart beat.

Feral

TRAGICSTORY

Monday, July 28, 2003 6:21 PM

First off, I am glad you signed up to answer my question.

Second, let me play the devil's advocate.

I see Jayne as betraying them in because of Simon's action in Serenity. I believe Jayne is a "Unit, Core, God, Country" character that did not believe Simon and River were part of his "unit" until his superior, Mal, told them they were.

I see him as repenting once he finds out what the Alliance did to River. Hence the leaving early bit. Not going to give all my arguements one way or the other cuz it will kill the thread and we have a long way to go till Dec.

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"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

FLYINFREE

Monday, July 28, 2003 8:16 PM

Quote:
I believe Jayne is a "Unit, Core, God, Country" character that did not believe Simon and River were part of his "unit" until his superior, Mal, told them they were.

Jayne has never been in the military and has no code other than what's good for Jayne. In Out of Gas he was with a crew who he shot and betrayed because Mal offered him more money. In Jaynestown you find out he tossed a partner out the door of a ship to get away. Jayne only cares about money and only fears Mal, these two things form about as much of a conscience as he has.

Now having said all that, he does have some soft spots, Kaylee for one, his mother for another. Jayne has obviously lived a hard life with even harder people and has learned to look out for number one. But I think the "family" atmosphere in Serenity is slowly (VERY slowly) having an effect on him, I don't think he will ever be trustworthy but we may see moments of humanity in Jayne in the future (assuming Firefly has one).

Still flyin'...

TRAGICSTORY

Monday, July 28, 2003 8:45 PM

To counter:

I have NEVER had military training BUT if Fox comes knocking ony door blaming me for copyright infrngment for ALL of Firefly.net. I would admit all guilt, tell them to FUCK OFF and go to jail.

Just because you have never been in the military does not mean one can not sacrifice one'self for the greater good.

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"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

BLACKSTAR

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:15 AM

I agree, in part, wtih Flyinfree. Jayne is a mercenary who's main concern is the money. That's not to say that he has no loyalties at all, he certainly has some, ie to Mal and the rest of Serenity's crew, but that loyalty only extends so far. In the pilot episode Serenity Jayne was, at least partly, considering Dobson's offer to turn in River and Simon, but decided against it because of the lack of certainty. In Buswhacked he was ready to leave Mal and Zoe to the Feds to keep from angering Nyska. In Ariel he just continues this trend. I belive that given the chance to profit from turning in River and Sam, Jayne would do it with little hesitation.

Oh, MY GOD! WHO'S FLYING THIS THING!!! Oh, yeah, that would be me...

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:33 AM

If you watch the sceen with the cool 3D brain scanner gizmo, he was totally disinterested until Simon started rambling about " them cutting Rivers Brain " at this point Jayne starts to ask a question or two, and seems to feel revulsion towards those who did this to her.

When Jayne joined the crew, and even more importantly when Mal made the offer, Mal looked at Jayne and seen something more than he was. With Mals experience from the war, leading a milita military unit ( not regulars, a pickup collection of volunteers ) he would be good at assessing and motivating a wide variety of personalities. I think he noticed a potential in Jayne, I think that is why Mal kept him around, and I think that is why he gave Jayne a second chance after Ariel. If Zoe had been in command, I don't believe this would have happened, mind you I think Zoe while being a hell of a soldier might be out of her element taking over in a long term capacity.

Yet another minor reoccuring plot line,

The redemption of Jayne Cobb...

" If wishes were Horses, then we'd all be eatting Steak "

FLYINFREE

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:12 AM

Quote:
Mal looked at Jayne and seen something more than he was.

When Mal looked at Jayne it was because Jayne had tracked them down with such ease, what he saw was skill, not any kind of redemptive quality. Mal doesn't trust Jayne, never has and never will. He always warns the other crew members not to trust him. He always keeps an eye on him, and smacks him down to keep him in line.

Once you know you can't trust someone and you know the reasons for it, you can use them as long as you keep those reasons in mind. Jayne is useful so Mal deals with him. Mal is also a sap as Tracey points out in The Message, and reckless as shown in several episodes. Mal probably shouldn't have kept Jayne around, but doesn't like the idea of screwing Jayne over until he has to. Mal usually lets his enemies live after he defeats them (Patience, the crooked Alliance officer in The Message, the guy he duelled with), this invariably will cause him problems in the future. If there's anything movies and TV has taught us, kill the badguy cause he'll just keep coming back, you can't have a recurring villian if you don't let him recur.

Quote:
"He won't kill anyone unless he has to. Nice guys can only get so mad. But when you're hollowed out inside you can get pretty mad." - Nathan Fillion on Mal

Still flyin'...

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:51 AM

He doesn't have to kill Jayne, he always has had the option of putting him off the boat as he did with Bester.

If you watch the Mal / Jayne interaction, it is almost Father / Son in many ways. One scene in particular, the end of Jaynestown where Mal talks of heroes and men who have statues in their honor. Jayne doesn't get it, but Mal is trying to explain it to him and that is the real point.

Also from the Message, Book suggests the course of action to follow, but Mal hesitates until Jayne supports the good Shepards position. That indicates a bit of trust and respect in his opinion to me.

And after all, if we had a crew that just blindly followed orders without any personal motives, we'd be watching Star Trek.

" If wishes were Horses, then we'd all be eatting Steak "

FLYINFREE

Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:43 AM

Quote:
He doesn't have to kill Jayne, he always has had the option of putting him off the boat as he did with Bester.

No, he'd have to kill him. If he put him off the ship Jayne would just turn the lot of them in. As long as Simon and River are on board, Jayne has to be kept on a short lease, or killed.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jayne. I think he's the best character on the show.

Still flyin'...

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