The future of U.S. public schools...

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Sunday, December 14, 2025 23:32
VIEWED: 8340
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CHRISISALL

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 3:44 PM

7% brought it up, and it seemed worthy of it's own thread...

"And I'd like to throw out this little gem - every billion dollars spent shooting people and building schools in Iraq that we blew up in the first place is a billion dollars that doesn't get spent in our own schools, where kids are shooting each other and some schools haven't seen a fresh coat of paint in a decade. They cut head start and programs for gifted and disabled kids to pay for this little field trip, so in 10, 15 years when everyone is complaining because the U.S. educational system is in a sorry state, I'd like them to remember stuff like this (and it isn't just GWB's fault either, but this is a topic for another thread)."

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I thought schools were in bad shape when I went through them as a kid. The bright spots for me were the teachers I had that wanted to teach; the system itself was a nightmare.
And if it's gonna be worse than that now....

SAT challenged Chrisisall

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:06 PM

I move we consider abandoning the idea of the private school by introducing a simple rule.

Here's the current state of things:

1. The govt. has an obligation to pay for education.
2. At the moment towards that end it pays $15,000 per child per year in public education.

The new rule I propose is this:

Why not just open the field to competition?
$15,000 per child per year to any institution which meets a certain set of academic standards, which can easily be measured in the form of test results for viability.

If someone is teaching intelligent design and not teaching evolution, then the majority of their students will probably not be able to answer this question:

Which of the following is the closest relative of man:

A. Octopus
B. Starfish
C. Oyster
D. Lobster

LIMINALOSITY

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:21 PM

Yes please, let's fix the broken schools. It would be a fine way to fix many of the cracks in our whole way of thinking, and we really miss the mark with the way schools are set up in this country. I had a good number of gifted teachers, and most of the best of them brought fresh ideas of how to work around the constraints of the system. The thing they all had in common was an understanding of native intelligence; that really all it takes to allow a mind to open is respect for intelligence, and an ability to help a child find tools to learn -how- to learn. I think that there are many teachers who could be great, but they are mutilated by a school system that values conformity over brilliance.

I think the current way of schooling 8-3, straight through the day doesn't take best advantage of people's attention span and abilities to process. I've read plenty about 8 being too early for kids, especially teenagers. Straight through the day burns anyone out unless the idea is handled very creatively, and one person's creative can be another's bor-ring.

If we create something different, what is the absolute base that should be tested for, and how do we allow for other things a child might want to learn? Who would do the testing?

What about children who are discipline problems? I think this would drop to a much lower baseline if the system weren't so restrictive, but western culture nurtures challenges to attention and attitude in many other ways.

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

KHYRON

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
If someone is teaching intelligent design and not teaching evolution, then the majority of their students will probably not be able to answer this question:

Which of the following is the closest relative of man:

A. Octopus
B. Starfish
C. Oyster
D. Lobster

I was taught evolution at school, but nonetheless I give up. Which one is it? I guess since it's generally accepted (I think) that the earliest creature that moved to land was a fish, the answer should be a creature that's most closely related to fish. I don't think any of those are fish (not even starfish), but I guess I could be wrong.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:55 PM

khyron,

Now that would be telling. You are correct on two points though, which is that none of the above is a fish, and than man is more closely related to a fish than to any of these. This shows that school is doing something, but clearly it could do more. There is a need here for evolution of education. Everyone should know the answer to the above question, one of the above creatures is a much closer relation to man than the other three, evolutionarily and genetically speaking. I'm assuming someone will come along who knows the answer to this question.

lim,

the standards would have to be set by statute, and that statute would have to be set by state because that's how education is done in this country. The statute would only vaguely describe the standards as in "comparable knowledge of chemisty to the average japanese student of the same grade" or something like that, anyway. From there, the testing would be farmed out to private corporations who would compete for contracts. No need to speculate whether or not this would work, we know it workds, this is how it's done now.

In addition, I think it would be nice to have a redundant system here, it would be nice if three different companies were test the students each once a year, in their own independently devised way, so every four month, in staggered formation.

I think this would be the standard for something I'd call mainstream students. Separate standards could be set for exceptional students, both gifted and special ed. But I'm assume 90% of students would fit to the mainstream standard.

KHYRON

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:29 PM

Alright then, I'm not sure how to argue this in terms of evolution, but in terms of biological features, the octopus has the most complicated nervous system of those four, including a fairly developed brain. Also (from what I've heard, but maybe I misheard), its eye is also pretty similar to that of vertebrates. So my guess is octopus, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm way off.

I guess, in the evolutionary sense, it must be an invertebrate that's most similar to the ancestors of fish, and since I haven't got a clue from which invertebrate vertebrates came, I give up.

Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.

KHYRON

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:25 PM

Goodbye to intelligent design.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4545822.stm

Well, at least in parts of Pennsylvania.

Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.

DC4BS

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:36 PM

Oh well. Beat me to it... I go with the octopus for the same reasons. Just can't see it being the bivalve, the exoskelital bug or the starfish (way to primitive structure). Besides, Hoodini the octopus rules! I'd way rather be related to him than any of the others in the list.

As to what schools were like in the 80's, I'm not all that sure how much I learned in scholl verses the thousands of books I've read on my own time. Er.. and on "school time" as well.

I used to average about a book a day in highschool aside from school reading assignments. So because I didn't do well in english class because I got straight A's on the all the tests but only did "just" enough homework to average a c- so I'd graduate each year, guess what they did to "help" me? Yep! REMEDIAL READING CLASS! No! Don't throw me in that briar patch! please! AHHhhh... Hahahaha!

God, I hated highschool and the moronic system that ran it and continues to run it into the ground. If/when I have kids, I'll SERIOUSLY look into home schooling them.

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

KHYRON

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dc4bs:
God, I hated highschool and the moronic system that ran it and continues to run it into the ground. If/when I have kids, I'll SERIOUSLY look into home schooling them.

I also considered home-schooling, but the problem with that is that it takes up a lot of time, while I and the future missus will probably have busy careers. International schools (offering IBs - international baccalaureates) are pretty decent. Far more expensive, but if you can afford them, the education is much better.

Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.

DIEGO

Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Which of the following is the closest relative of man:

A. Octopus
B. Starfish
C. Oyster
D. Lobster

Easy, the starfish! Echinoderms are our fellow deuterostomes. I used to give essentially the same question to my students in a zoology laboratory course I taught.

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