Tim Minear reveals another unfilmed FF episode
POSTED BY: Blinker
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 07:31
VIEWED: 54391
PAGE 12 of 13
AGENTROUKA:
I broke you. I win by default.
I would have loved to see where this debate went but you weren't strong enough. I win because you are weak.
XG
**I am the triumphant planter of the seed, gloriously basking in the magnificent splendor of woman-whores feeding me grapes**
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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..and don't even try the 23rd-chromosome argument.
Your duty in life is to reproduce progeny. Fetching beer can and potentially could be a highlight to a reproductive career. It could be the ticket to promotion... floor mopper? Maybe dish washer? No promises, just possibilities.
It's your choice.
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just suck. And I like to debate. Not win by default. Don't surrender (unless you're French).
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
..and don't even try the 23rd-chromosome argument.
Your duty in life is to reproduce progeny. Fetching beer can and potentially could be a highlight to a reproductive career. It could be the ticket to promotion... floor mopper? Maybe dish washer? No promises, just possibilities.
It's your choice.
XG
You're so adorable. *g*
By all means, I'll continue the debate if you are eager to. My points above are still valid. Reply if you feel strong enough.
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So you accept the challenge. Well done.
I'll steal a play out of your playbook and ask some questions (when I should be answering them).
We'll start with a single simple question.
I've called prostitution dehumanizing. You're defending it.
What's your definition of a human? What does it mean to be human. I mean, c'mon already, to be human is to have "freedom of choice" ~ perfectly plausible ideal, and an "easy out" when it comes to answering that question.
We're in the aftermath of the free-love revolution of the 60s. It used to mean freedom to pick whom you slept with, how many people you slept with and how often, whether or not you had to honor the whole marriage agreement (to divorce or not to divorce), etc. Now it's coming down to a person's right to sell their sexuality for money. It's their birthright to decide what they do with their sexuality.
When will my using the word "whore" to refer to someone taking money for sex become a lifedestroying stain against me in a politically correct world? That day is rapidly approaching, and along with it, a day when sex-for-sale will be a civil right.
What happens in Vegas, doesn't stay in Vegas. It ends up on HBO and spreads everywhere.
So, before we debate whether prostitution is morally wrong and/or dehumanizing, I'm asking you a question. What is your definition of a "human"?
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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On the issue of the syringe, I agree with someone's suggestion above that it's an assassin's weapon. Why does Inara have a fake incense stick which is really a flash bomb? Why is she good with a sword? A bow and arrow? Why does she have fighting skills? She put up a good fight against both the Operative and Saffron. She had a knife at Rance Burgess's throat in an instant. While these are useful skills in a savage environment, Companions service the rich in safe places, like Companion Houses or luxury liners. Why would they have these skills? In the old days, geishas and courtesans might be well-versed in the "feminine" arts, but there's no history of them being knowledgeable about hand-to-hand combat, is there? So there's not even a historical precedent.
Saffron can kick ass. Where did she learn that? Nandi had a collection of guns and was a tough woman. Why is the Companion's Guild taking women like this when they presumably spend most of their time dealing with pampered rich men and women?
If the Guild has a secret, political side, a la the Bene Gesseret in Dune, then Inara's syringe makes sense. You would use it on a target, so you'd have time to inject yourself before the victim shows up. They die later, you're gone, and, if it's the right kind of poison, it leaves no traces and you're free and clear.
Knowing beforehand that you're going to be raped and then injecting yourself in order to kill the perpetrator is too far-fetched to be the normal intended use, although, in the case of the possible Reaver boarding in the pilot, it would have worked that way. Maybe Inara works for the Guild, taking out the occasional client. Or she left because she was horrified when she was asked to do so (more in keeping with her personality, I think), but kept the syringe (a tad unlikely, I admit).
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Don't be so condescending, dearest. I don't need to be praised for indulging you.
Humanity? That's a trap argument and you know it.
The definition of "human" has absolutely nothing to do with an individual's choice (Yes, choice!) to do with themselves as they please.
Adult age. Ability to give (and deny) informed consent. That's what counts here.
I'll take the only question that has any relevance.
Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
When will my using the word "whore" to refer to someone taking money for sex become a lifedestroying stain against me in a politically correct world? That day is rapidly approaching, and along with it, a day when sex-for-sale will be a civil right.
It's the difference between homosexual and "fag".
Some people's religions denounce homosexuality as sin, yet it has (rightfully) become socially unacceptable to refer to gay people in derogatory ways.
That's because private misgivings shouldn't be public standard.
So, in my perfect world, it would indeed be socially damaging to call prostitutes "whores" unless they have reclaimed the word for themselves and/or it has stopped meaning more than just a neutral description. It's way more than that right now.
Quote:
So, before we debate whether prostitution is morally wrong and/or dehumanizing, I'm asking you a question. What is your definition of a "human"?
I am not arguing about dehumanizing. You are. If you want to bring the topic into conversation, explain your reasoning.
The only thing that could - in my mind - touch the integrity of a person's emotional state and sense of dignity (and mind, I'm referring to how the person perceives him/herself, which is what should count) would be coercion of some kind. Take away free will and you hurt the person.
With free will? Still fail to see what the harm is supposed to be.
Now, by all means, surprise me and actually state a clear argument.
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Ahh I know your type. I dropped out of college and threw away some kind of promising career at something or other to follow a woman just like you.
How I came to know her is irrelevant. She was different and the sex was spectacular. Off the charts.
We travelled down the coast smoking weed in a bong and partied on my credit cards. It was the best time of my life, and if I could travel back through time to "fix" things (change the outcome), I wouldn't change a damned thing. It was the best time of my life (and the most damning part of it).
I fell in love with a whore, and she did too vice-a-versa. And know she wasn't faking cuz all these many years later I still hear from her. Nothing has changed. I came to know every last horrific detail of her life. And I can't seem to escape her continuous contact (not that I actually want to).
I know you better than you would or could imagine I could. Lemme guess... you had sexually abusive parent(s), you escaped home, got forced into a life of prostitution. A life full of nightmare stories enormous enough to fill volumes of books. Or, whatever.
Not knocking it. Not doubting it. Just I've already been 1sthand sympathetic to it (with consequences). You asked me to "explain my reasoning". So there it is.
I don't hate whores. I love'm. Won't pay for them, but I know where they are coming from. Once you fiddle with one, it ruins you for all other women. Or teaches you how to train them to please men. I know I know. That is such an ugly statement. But somehow true. Someone please explain divorce rates and infidelity rates to me. Ahh the lies we lead (I'm sorry, I meant the lives we lead).
Agentrouka: I know you better than you think I do. I suspected something about you from the get-go but had to prod and pry to get you to finally post a little bit of honesty. For once you're not acting like some phoney lawyer type. I reserve "whore" for women who marry men for money, and not the ones who get paid for the forgettable deniable act (choice or otherwise).
Ahh what a magical wonder the truth can perform.
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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Now I'm a type? And oh, what a particular type, as well. Adventuresome life I do lead.
I'd hate to scratch away at the (fourth, fifth?) version of me you have conjured up, so I'll leave it to your imagination how far off the mark you may or may not be.
Though, I find it fascinating that someone who professes to distrust psychology is so very enarmored with "analyzing" and casting into types. My argument can't stand on its own, you have to construct a whole life story behind it to explain why and how.
Tell me, do my thoughts reflect on my shoe size, as well? My preferred length of fingernails? My dishwashing habits?
Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Agentrouka: I know you better than you think I do. I suspected something about you from the get-go but had to prod and pry to get you to finally post a little bit of honesty.
You suspected from that start that I must be a prostitute from a broken home. Wow. How dare I have tried to hide this obvious fact.
Of course, I had foolishly believed that I was being honest about my opinion all this time.
For what it's worth, that one application of whore I can agree with, although everything else you said in your last posts completely contradicts the opinions you have uttered before, what with the horrible, immoral, society-destroying effects of prostitution and such...
Have a nice weekend, though. *g*
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Oh phtphtpht!
I've been trying to figure out what motivates you to take such an absurd pro-hooker position.
You're one of 2 types of people:
(1) Perhaps you're some supremely all-knowing ivory tower hipocrite who spouts off at the mouth about the nobility of whoring, yet has no 1sthand experience. It's all political theory to you. Maybe you're a manhating femlib college professor, maybe you're a desperate house wife who reads too much and thinks your husband is some kind of Ghengis Khan oppressor (you Scorpionwoman you!). Maybe you're not even a woman. Maybe you're a man. Maybe you're a gay man trapped inside a woman's body. (which technically is genderbendingly debateable, and kinda funny).
(2) Or someone who has been there, done that, and now wants to justify it. Most in that situation didn't arrive there by choice. They are all wracked with guilt, ashamed, and know it's disgusting. But condeming it makes them feel like they are worthless lesser human beings because it's self-recrimination. And those who do it because they just feel like it, well... they got issues.
To get to that point, in debating this with you I have to wade through layer after layer of intellectual interference. Never speak plainly, never clearly state what you believe and why. Just innundate me with aristocratic blubbering from an elightened point of view.
It's the type of psychobabbling crap reserved for lawyers, politicians, "educators", and educated people who have to dance in the nebulous world of "know-it-all'ery" (like psychiatrists, and their psychology-major minions).
(like all of the above actually).
When did a little piece of paper from college suddenly make other people godlike arbiters of the truth? The Internet is the last bastion of free debate. That's why I love it so much.
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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XG --
You know, I stopped taking you seriously a long while ago, but now you're not even fun to toy with anymore!
Getting all huffy like that and exposing yourself for a closed-minded, judgmental pop-psychologist?
Still not making ONE SINGLE POINT in favor of your own argument instead of just sitting there, whining about my debating style and then trying to give yourself credibility by imagining up a completely unfounded backstory for my opinions?
I'm sorely disappointed. There goes my shallow entertainment.
I'll have some popcorn in your memory.
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