Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a terrorist threat to the US
POSTED BY: lynchaj
UPDATED: Sunday, March 8, 2026 22:55
VIEWED: 12725
PAGE 1 of 7
The "post 9/11" argument is getting really, really stale, and it was really stupid the first 10k times I had to hear it from GWB justifying the first pre-emptive war in modern American history.
The whole argument goes right out the window with this line
Quote:
However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks.
So, since we live in a post 9/11 world, I guess it's okay to just grab people off the street and arrest them for crimes they 'might' commit? I think AJ might commit assault sometime next year - he even has a knife in his kitchen! Better do something! In case you've been asleep for the past few years, preemptively striking terror hasn't exactly been fixing the problem, has it?
And let me get something else straight. Weren't you one of the people bashing the Russians for saying the war wasn't justified?
Quote:Didn't you say they were as bad as the French and Germans? Now, all of a sudden, their intel is good enough for you, since it's possible that a crime might possibly have been thought about possibly being committed?
Russia opposed the invasion of Iraq and Putin said Friday the information did not effect its stance on the war.
Quote:
He also cited Musab Abu al-Zarqawi, the wanted insurgent in Iraq suspected of many terrorist bombings in Iraq, as an "al Qaeda associate."
And finally, while I'm at it, that little gem. As if al-Z is an Iraqi or had been active in Iraq before the war even started. He's Jordanian, condemned in his own country, and came to the fight after we went in. Iraq may have been a lot of things, but it sure as hell wasn't a terror stronghold till we went in knocking around about the oil fields.
Did you even read the article, or did you just read the title and link off of it?
------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Regardless. He still deserved a giant ass-whipping. 
Adam
http://www.myspace.com/mksentinel
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSentinel:
Regardless. He still deserved a giant ass-whipping.
Good thing we gave him one, huh? All it took us to do it was:
- @2100 US Soldiers killed
- 15000+ US Soldiers wounded
- Tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed
- Complete loss of US respect on the world stage
- Slashing of domestic programs for vets, the elderly, and children to pay for it
- Loss of the ability to stabilize Afghanistan (everyone welcome back the Taliban!)
- Creation of terrorist training grounds considered even by administration hawks to be worse than what the Russians made in Afghanistan
But, hey, we sure showed him, right?
------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:Quote:
Originally posted by TheSentinel:
Regardless. He still deserved a giant ass-whipping.
Good thing we gave him one, huh? All it took us to do it was:
- @2100 US Soldiers killed
- 15000+ US Soldiers wounded
- Tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed
- Complete loss of US respect on the world stage
- Slashing of domestic programs for vets, the elderly, and children to pay for it
- Loss of the ability to stabilize Afghanistan (everyone welcome back the Taliban!)
- Creation of terrorist training grounds considered even by administration hawks to be worse than what the Russians made in Afghanistan
But, hey, we sure showed him, right?
------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
First off, the death toll pales in comparison to recent major conflicts and most of the injury has been inflicted by insurgents who would otherwise be striking out at American citizens.
Second, How come folks never focus on the fact that this bastard gassed and executed thousands of his own people. How come the CNN viewers always seem to ignore the GOOD that has been done in the liberation of Iraq and that the evil that prevails there is being conducted by al qaeda bastards who would love to see 3000 more American citizens vaporized on US soil.
And we are doing PLENTY to stabalize Afghanistan...more every day.
AND WHAT TRAINING CAMPS DID THE RUSSIANS MAKE IN AFGHANISTAN?! We were the ones that built Al Qaeda in a proxy war against the Soviets. The Russians got their ASSES kicked by the "terrorists".
Sorry if I seem a little combative on the subject, but considering what I do for a living I have a special pride and vested interest in what's going on in Iraq. Could it be handled better? Sure.
Have there been mistakes? Sure.
Should we have left that maggot in power? Apparently some say yes... I suppose Hitler had supporters too.
Adam
http://www.myspace.com/mksentinel
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:It’s got nothing to do with living in a “post 9/ll world,” conspiracy to commit a crime has always been illegal. People have even gone to jail for it.
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
So, since we live in a post 9/11 world, I guess it's okay to just grab people off the street and arrest them for crimes they 'might' commit? I think AJ might commit assault sometime next year - he even has a knife in his kitchen! Better do something! In case you've been asleep for the past few years, preemtively striking terror hasn't exactly been fixing the problem, has it?
Quote:Al-Zawahiri is the operational commander of al Qaeda. In 2000 an Iraqi Intellegence operative was arrested by Pakistani authorities while trying to meet with Zawahiri. After being wounded in combat with American forces in Afghanistan in 2002, Zawahiri fled to Baghdad to receive medical treatement. There Zawahiri, along with many other fugative al Qeada operatives, established a base of operations to replace their previous base in the former Taliban controled Afghanistan. Based on what we know about Zawahiri alone we can conclude that Iraq was probably a terrorist stronghold before the US/UK invasion. This doesn’t take into account the strong relationship between many other al Qaeda operatives and Iraq, some of which go back to the early 1990s.
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
And finally, while I'm at it, that little gem. As if al-Z is an Iraqi or had been active in Iraq before the war even started. He's Jordanian, condemned in his own country, and came to the fight after we went in. Iraq may have been a lot of things, but it sure as hell wasn't a terror stronghold till we went in knocking around about the oil fields.
-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Finn,
I assumed al-Z was Al Zarqawi.
Since Zawahiri is an Egyptian, the identification of Al-Z as Jordanian led me to that conclusion.
I really don't want to get embroiled in a framed debate, which is what this is, particularly this sort of framed debate which exists to perpetuate an illusion, but I need to spell this illusion out for people:
A framed debate is a debate initiated by someone who want to perpetuate an idea and can do so not by winning the debate, but simply as a result of the debates existance. This is often one that takes a very extreme position, or one in which the position is so strongly on the side of reason that it makes any opposition seem ludicrous.
A couple of examples:
Intelligent Design vs. Evolution. (The goal of this debate is not to defeat evolution, it is to put up intelligent design up as a valid competitor to evolution, which it does simply by the existance of the debate. Without the debate, intelligent design would be discarded and totally ignored)
McCain's torture ammendment. (Opposing it would place anyone on the other side into an absurd position.)
Framed debates aren't always bad, but you have to be careful of them. In this case, by posting this, I help the cause of people who want to link the Iraq War to the war on terror, when in fact there is no connection other than the one pro-Bush spinmeisters want to draw.
Facts:
1. We invaded Iraq in order to steal the oil. This was the Clinton Plan. Bush followed the Clinton Plan because Bush is Clinton. A more incompetent Clinton, sure, but he is getting his policy ideas from the exact same place, because they aren't thinking men, they are men following orders.
2. The war on terror happened because we were attacked. Al Qaeda had been attacking us for some time, and in 2001 either we were a) unlucky, b) incompetent, or c) intentionally let it happen to escalate the conflict.
These two things are not particularly connected. The frame of this debate is to connect them.
Lynch is a clever guy. He and I are both pretty solidly right wing, and if it comes down to it, I can see us viciously opposing one another in this field of politics. But probably only in a primary, after it's over we'll probably vote for the same candidate. But I strongly disagree with these Iraq war claims that Bush/Cheney make, and the Lynch and others attempt to spin support for.
So...
Here's the ingenious web.
Lynch's statement is true.
This doesn't change the fact that he has framed this debate to support an idea which is distinctly 'not true.'
But here, Lynch isn't lying, he is tricking his opposition into making an error by claiming it's not true.
Here's the reality:
1. Saddam Hussein was an open supporter of terrorism. No way around it. He didn't hide the fact.
2. That terrorism was aimed mostly at Israel.
3. Saddam did not support Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden intentionally. He didn't like them.
4. Saddam is a secular socialist. He hates religious extremists like Bin Laden. Unfortunately, there are plenty of secular socialist islamic terrorist organizations for Saddam to support.
5. In US security terms, the particular issue of significance is whether or not Al Qaeda gets a serious base of support such as an oil rich muslim nation.
6. If this happens, we will be in a world of trouble.
7. At present, we are much much closer to this eventuality than we were before the war began.
8. Another solution other than war would might been able to reduce this threat, such as supporting an extant opposition to Hussein which also opposed Bin Laden.
9. But again, anti-terrorism was not what this war was about. If we didn't invade and occupy there would be no way for us to get our hands on the oil. Us being Chevron/Texaco.
10. The best way to ensure that Al Qaeda gets a permanent economic base is to immediately withdraw from Iraq.
11. Isn't this a tricky situation?
12. The democrats want to step up operations so they can spread the war throughout the region.
13. This is particularly because th
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSentinel:
First off, the death toll pales in comparison to recent major conflicts
None of which the US bothered to take an active role in. Sudan, anyone? Rwanda, anyone? No?
Quote:
and most of the injury has been inflicted by insurgents who would otherwise be striking out at American citizens.
Yes, because like a typical Fox news viewer, you believe insurgent=terrorist.
Quote:
Second, How come folks never focus on the fact that this bastard gassed and executed thousands of his own people.
Lets focus on that. There have been repeated articles debating whether or not the gassing even happened; that it was Iranians instead. Did he execute and torture his own people? Certainly. But I suggest if you are going to hold a war over that, you get your rifle ready, because the Saudis (who GWB loves to hold hands with) do it every single day. Call the White House and tell GWB to declare war on them next, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
Quote:
and that the evil that prevails there is being conducted by al qaeda bastards who would love to see 3000 more American citizens vaporized on US soil.
Once more, slowly so everyone gets it. Common Iraqi != (does not equal) Al-Qaida, insurgent != terrorist, Iraq != 9/11.
Quote:
And we are doing PLENTY to stabalize Afghanistan...more every day.
Afghanistan insurgence growing stronger
By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
FORT BRAGG, N.C. — U.S. Special Forces soldiers hunting Taliban and foreign fighters in southern Afghanistan say they are encountering a fiercer and more organized adversary than last year, and one that is far from being near collapse as predicted by an American general in April.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-11-16-afghanistan-taliban_x.ht
m?POE=NEWISVA
Quote:They didn't 'make' any, they enabled an inexperienced enemy to gain valuable combat experience fighting against a technologically superior foe, which is exactly what we're doing in Iraq right now. And, for later remember you said this
AND WHAT TRAINING CAMPS DID THE RUSSIANS MAKE IN AFGHANISTAN?! We were the ones that built Al Qaeda in a proxy war against the Soviets. The Russians got their ASSES kicked by the "terrorists".
Quote:,
We were the ones that built Al Qaeda
because usually right-wingers like to say that we didn't have anything to do with the creation of al-Qaida, and that our global foreign policy hasn't been the cause of any worldwide tension against us.
Quote:
I have a special pride and vested interest in what's going on in Iraq.
Because no one else could have friends or relatives serving over there, or take pride in how the US conducts itself in these matters? If you're going to use an argument that because you are in the military you get special pride/comment points, then remember that too the next time you comment on any other newsworthy issue in America (because if I had a nickel for every person that told me how they thought they knew how to 'fix' our education system but never taught a class...but I digress).
Quote:
Could it be handled better? Sure.
Have there been mistakes? Sure.
Well, we agree on something.
Quote:
Should we have left that maggot in power? Apparently some say yes... I suppose Hitler had supporters too.
Way to link people who don't agree with you to Nazi sympathizers. That particular fallacy is called an ad hominem, and it's used by people who don't have a real argument, or don't understand the argument in play. Just because people think he should have been left in power doesn't mean people don't think he was a scumbag. But he had a secular regime, open animosity towards Iran and al-Qaida (give it up Finn, Osama had been quoted up until the war started as saying he wanted Saddam's head on a stake), no WMD's, and was contained by sanctions and military no-fly zones. Explain to me how Saddam even remotely compares to Hitler. That's an Ann Coulter/Hannity talking point and it shows a
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:You’re right. I meant Zarqawi. I can’t keep these names straight. :biggin: That’s what I get for rattling stuff off the top of my head.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Finn,
I assumed al-Z was Al Zarqawi.
Since Zawahiri is an Egyptian, the identification of Al-Z as Jordanian led me to that conclusion.
-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So because we didn't take as strong an action in Rwanda or Sudan we shouldn't take action anywhere? Typical leftist argument. I guess Americans are the only ones entitled to live without fear of an evil dictator (insert witty anti-Bush comment here).
Insurgent = terrorist. No comment here.
There's also a lot of debate over wether the holocaust ever happened as well. And I never said we shouldn't kick the dog shit out of the Saudis either. Since you seem to be an educated guy, you no doubt know why we have Bin Laden in the first place. Here's the brief history:
America can't fight a full-up-round war with The Soviets so we resorted to proxy war throughout much of the cold war. One of our biggest successes was the training and equipping of the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan.
A large recruiting movement was being conducted in Saudi Arabia at the time, encouraging young men to go fight for what would surely be another Saladin's victory. Most went and did nothing but drink, smoke, and chase women, never fighting a day. Others became legend. Such was the case with Osama Bin Laden.
Post victory Bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia a HERO. Well respected by the royal family and even praised by America.
That is until Hussein invaded Kuwait. Bin Laden's response. "Hey let's get some of my Mujahadeen brothers together and go in and kick this guys infidel ass!" Of course we know what the Saudi's chose to do. SO began Bin Laden's campaign against the Saudi family, his exile from his home country, and his deep-seeded hate for America...because we came when we weren't wanted or needed.
So, the Saudis have been an integral part of digging us into a deep dark hole for years now. We need to become a NON-OIL-DEPENDANT country so we can deal with them as well.
"Once more, slowly so everyone gets it. Common Iraqi != (does not equal) Al-Qaida, insurgent != terrorist, Iraq != 9/11. "
Ummm...and you use the ad hominem defense on me for my Nazi comment? And the slowly thing is also a higher form of debate as well I guess? I never said that the common Iraqi = terrorist. However you MUST know from your reading and research that the insurgent leaders are mainly Al Qaeda operatives like Al-Zarqawi (another Mujahadeen vet) or displaced Iranian religious zealots who are just as bad. Sure, I imagine there are a few "patriots" thrown into the mix, but let's not paint these folks as the poor oppressed voice of the Iraqi people either. They are a fringe movement of malcontents and miscreants who want to build a new terrorist state in the wake of the fall of Saddam's regime.
As for the Afghanistan issue, we're handling it. Asymmentircal warfare sucks, but our folks are developing new tactics every day to adapt and overcome. I think the "threat" in Afghanistan is being slightly over-blown in this article.
Also, I know what I said. Read the above for more. I also know that the only reason the Afghanis WON against the Soviets was because we backed them in the fight against communist rule. The primary weapon that won them the war was the stinger missle...which blew Soviet helicopters out of the sky. Me...well YEARS later I'm a big fan of stealth technology and precision munitions.
Which brings me to another point, that in a way we kind of force these folks into acts of terrorism, because NO ONE ELSE ON THE PLANET can really contend with the US as a military threat. The closest would be the Chinese (go Whedon).
In closing, this is probably pointless. You speak your voice, I counter. I speak mine, you counter. No one learns anything or comes away with a different perspective. I hope you'll see that I'm a little more educated on the subject than your typical "uber patriot" poster AND I'm willing to concede that a lot of what has gone on and is going on is f'ed up.
Also, though it may not appear that way I am enjoying the discussion and am sorry if I've offended you. I wasn't saying that you have no right to an opinion or to post your feelings because I'm a military member. I was merely
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
JUNE 18 2004 MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.
The warnings were provided after September 11, 2001 and before the start of the Iraqi war, Putin said Friday.
The planned attacks were targeted both inside and outside the United States, said Putin, who made the remarks during a visit to Kazakhstan.
From AJ:
Quote:Well, and of course Putin would NEVER lie because he would NEVER want to see our troops tied up in Iraq, and would NEVER want to see us spending hundreds of billions of dollars, bankrupting our economy, and diverting both world and Islamist fanatic attention from Chechnya! And being the ex-head of the KBG, Putin is an honest man who only has our interests at heart! HAHAHAHAHA!!! Snort! Guffaw!
And here is the proof! It is information from Mr. Putin, hardly a friend of the US during the Iraq war. The story was published by none other than CNN, so I don't think anyone can reasonably say this source is biased FOR President Bush.
---------------------------------
Please don't think they give a shit.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME