Tim Minear reveals another unfilmed FF episode
POSTED BY: Blinker
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 07:31
VIEWED: 54391
PAGE 6 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
I think that some of the people who dislike the episode idea are assuming that the situation is resolved at the end of the episode. That's the way it works in most tv shows, a character goes through an extremely traumatic experience in one episode, recovers completely in the next episode, and the traumatic experience is never mentioned again or maybe it's just sort of alluded to but doesn't affect the story. I do not believe that the Firefly writers would have done that. Inara’s recovery would have probably taken place over an entire season and even then she won’t recover completely.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
I wonder if Inara would ever be able to be a Companion again after something so traumatic. She may not be puritanical about sex, but she's not open to anyone just violating her, especially in the way Reavers would. How long would that nightmare stay with her? The moment a man (other than Mal) touches her, would she instinctively pull away? And if she ever recovers to the point where that doesn't happen, how long would it take? Or would she stop trying to be beautiful -- wearing glamorous outfits and make-up and having perfect hair. Would she try to scar herself physically so that men wouldn't find her attractive? It really would bring up a lot of questions that, like you said, couldn't be resolved in a few episodes. It would take a long time. There are many possibilities to the direction Inara's character could go, whether up (making her stonger) or down (pushing her toward darkness).
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AgentRouka said:
"And it's not like Joss has never failed. It's not a fan's duty to love everything. Personally, I think Atherton Wing and Rance Burgess were both pretty boring cardboard villains, and the hill folk of religious mania were also not exactly a revolutionary breakthrough in story telling.
They did serve to forward plot and say something about the other characters but by themselves they were pretty flat, one-dimensional. The reaver rape idea might have turned out no worse or better than that. Saying something profound about the core characters by less than brilliant means.
Doesn't mean someone who thinks the idea silly doesn't understand the nature of the series or posts "I hate Joss Whedon, you ruined the show!" in every board...
It's just a case of differing tastes. "
Actually, despite the things I said before, I agree with you, although I didn't say anything about people posting that they hate Joss Whedon on every board. I'm not blindly defending Joss, just to be clear; I'm defending him on a very particular point, which is his track record in regards to creating and executing Firefly. And I guess I'm sort of speaking up for anyone on the creative side of the fence - the people who actually put their creative efforts out there for people to like or dislike. It takes a lot of guts for anyone to do that. However...
No one is above failure or reproach. We, of course, should expect them to try and be at their best at all times, but we should know as well that they are never perfect and will never be able to hit a home run with all fans. Like I mentioned before, this goes for all creative types. And this is exactly why they should do things for themselves, not fans. You make what you want to see, that way you are true to your own vision; and that keeps a project "pure" in a way.
Firefly is by no means perfect, and the desire to analyse even this tiny plot snippet to death is a natural reaction. It can even be fun. I get it, I do, but I guess there's something inside of me that sees another side as well. I just hear people being so skeptical these days. On the one hand I get it, 'cause there's so much crap out there that deserves our scorn, but on the other hand why not just focus on the good? Why waste time with the bad? It seems like a waste of energy to me.
And if someone thinks they could do something better, then do it! Don't talk about it, do it. I'd be the first in line to watch/read it. Seriously. Not Firefly, of course, but something of your own. I'm willing and wanting to support quality entertainment. (And before any asks if I put my money where my mouth is, yes I do. It's what I do for a living. And amoung all the other things I'm working on, I'm slowly but surely producing my own graphic novel that I'm sure one day I'll ask Firefly fans to read - then I'll be the one out there under the scrutiny. Heck, maybe that's why I'm so sensative to all of this.)
So anyway, even though Firefly has it's less than perfect secondary characters or plots, it's those main characters and their charm that makes the show such a success. It's strengths far outweigh it's faults and that's pretty rare these days. So all I was saying before was that in the case of Firefly I think Joss has a damned near perfect track record and therefore deserves some benefit of doubt in this case.
Now how the hell did I get on my soapbox again. Sorry about that. I'm shutting up now.
"I don't wanna explode."
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Yuck.
It's amazing to me. People comparing this potential episode to the gratuitous rape ep from the new Battlestar Galactica (the most desperate attempt to revive a boring show ever). BSG's rape scene was all about trying to save a show that is boring the audience to death with ugly drama. The way it would have been done in FF would have made people think.
So much very thought provoking reflection on a twist in the plot line that will never be. Whedon and Minnear love to approach the unapproachable in their storylines which is what makes them great. It also makes their show cancelled before it ever gets out of the gate.
The minute they had Early (a black dude) threaten to rape Kaylee (the happy-go-lucky cutesy white dimwit mechanic chick), the show got a nuclear-bomb torpedo right across the hull. Hell... that ep never even made it onto the screen. It only lives on in the world of DVDs.
Nothing to do with the quality of the storytelling. It's the impact it would have had on people. All politics.
XG
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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Quote:
Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Yuck.
It's amazing to me. People comparing this potential episode to the gratuitous rape ep from the new Battlestar Galactica (the most desperate attempt to revive a boring show ever). BSG's rape scene was all about trying to save a show that is boring the audience to death with ugly drama. The way it would have been done in FF would have made people think.
I respect your opinion of BSG, but that plot point wasn't done out of some imaginary desperation. As I said before, it does play a role in how Humans and Cylons are perceived. Afterall, up to this point, Humans were portrayed as the victims while the Cylons as the enemy. Now we see an instance in which Humans show a side of themselves that makes you feel for the Cylons. And it brings up the question of whether the Cylons are right in exterminating Humans because they are capable of such horrendous acts. Also, what we've seen with one Battlestar preparing to fight another Battlestar is the divide inherent in human nature. How far is too far? At what point do Humans cease to be civilized and become monsters, maybe moreso than the enemy they're fighting? And at what point do Humans begin to turn on each other because of this?
I'm not knocking your opinion. If you don't like BSG, that's fine. But it is a very deep show, as much as Firefly/Serenity. And that's why I could draw the parallels that I drew. Because they're there.
All that said, I don't want to turn this into a BSG discussion so I'm just gonna leave it at that. Whatever you find boring is up to you. I know people who thought Firefly was boring. But it's not a big deal because I enjoy the show and that's all that matters to me.
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One thing that everyone seems to be ignoring is that this episode was never filmed. This says to me that Joss et al realized it would be a bad idea (for whatever reasons) before it was too late. I could see the basic plot being used if they downgraded Inara's trauma by making her assailants not Reavers, or only a few (not dozens). Reavers (like the Blue Hand guys) are meant to portray the ultimate evil of the kind people are willing to commit suicide to escape, and should only be used sparingly except for watershed events, such as Inara leaving the show for an extended period of healing and counselling at a Companion Guildhouse dedicated to such things. Serenity really only has room for one severely traumatized girl, and putting another "victim" on board would wreck the dramatic balance of the show.
BTW, did anyone else notice how young Inara looked in her last scene in the movie? Makes you wonder how just old she really is under all that Companion sophistication. Could she actually be the same age as River, and what Mal would think if he found out she was? 
Dalton "What does the Alliance consider jailbait?" Spence
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No Dalton we're gonna visit this subject.
Hmm Sadlittleking wants to examine the morality of killing "cylons" who exterminate humans off their homeworld and try to chase down the survivors in space as they hurl towards the mythical world of Earth. Their last shot at salvation.
Let's explore the motivation of the enemy. They are cruel and ruthless exterminators of humans ~ half genetically programmed, half computer programmed monsters. Let's give machines souls. Lets take aways the souls of the humans fighting them. It's such great storytelling.
Thank the Greek gods Zeus, Athena, etc. that the 12 tribes can go find the mythical 13th tribe, Earth. But only if they can escape the bio-mechanoid monsters hunting them. Oh wait, they suddenly have emotions, and if they are female men can rape them.
Shame on you naughty men! Thank Zeus we have a female politician from a now-extinct male-dominated society becoming the prophesized messiah of wayward humanity (ah she was secretary of education ~ we can learn from her).
It's not storytelling. It's politics.
If it isn't anything I'm saying, it is at the very least boring storytelling.
Glen Larson, original writer of BSG hates it. Richard Hatch (Apollo from the original BSG) once hated it and was a longtime advocate for the return of the show. They bought his silence by giving him a role on the show (ah a paycheck at last for a hasbeen actor). Larson always hated him and felt he was a parasite (was writing BSG books against Larson's will). And on and on...
Too much to tell. The original BSG was great, but it was basically "Mormons in Space". It was a parable of Mormon theology (cuz Larson is a Mormon). They stripped the soul out of his story, and made it all political. I'm no Mormon. In fact, I'm a godless viking with a little bit of Buddha weirness mixed in. I'm a nothing. But, I know crappy boring TV film when I see it. Weather channel is more thrilling than the new BSG and I've watched it since the beginning.
It's just not even remotely in the same storytelling universe as FF. The rape thing in BSG was just a cheap attempt to get ratings. No depth, no thought-proving basis to it. Just ratings.
I can't even believe I'm having this debate.
XG
This isn't battlestar galactica. if Larson hates it, that should say something.
No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.
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I get it. You don't like the show. I got that the first time. But as I said, I know people who don't like Firefly and look down on it the same way you look down on BSG. I'm not discussing this anymore. Move on.
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That would have been an interesting episode.
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Uh....for the record Objects in Space did air. The unaired episodes were Trash, The Message and Heart of Gold.
Now on to this story idea. I agree that it is a very rough idea. Inara even surviving a Reaver abduction is pretty amazing considering the Reaver description. Then having Mal go to save her rather than try to kill her out of mercy is kinda out of character. It might work only because it is Inara and he doesn't think clearly when it comes to her. If anyone else was taken I would think he'd do what he could to destroy the whole Reaver ship and put them out of their misery more than try to rescue them. Plus the Zoe standing guard thing does sound pretty weird. My best guess is they'd have Inara ask Zoe not to let Mal see her because she doesn't want Mal to see her broken. I think with some work it could be a decent episode. It would be traumatic though.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SadLittleKing:
How long would that nightmare stay with her? The moment a man (other than Mal) touches her, would she instinctively pull away?
Why do you assume "other than Mal"? Rape destroys intimacy by eradicting trust and equating everything with the psychological legacy of the act(s) - and what is more intimate than a touch from the person you love? If anything, I'd guess that Mal would be the most difficult person for Inara to face - if she ever could.
I have to say I think this sounds like a pretty vile idea. Plus, unintentionally amusing and/or Cronenbergesque (c'mon, a vagina that kills...). The idea that a gang-rape could be a great thing for Mal & Inara's relationship seems a particularly flawed one to me. But then (as others have pointed out), it IS only an outline.
What *would* be good for Mal & Inara's relationship is Mal getting it through his head that he can't separate Inara from her work. She isn't just turning tricks to feed her crack habit (unless that syringe really did contain her drugs
). Being a Companion is her life; it's what she was raised and trained to do, and it's at the centre of her worldview just as much as aiming to misbehave is at the centre of Mal's. He *can't* respect her but not her job, because that's a false dichotomy and (to me) suggests that he loves an idealised figure rather than the real person. Sure she has bad days (like the "Your clock is probably rigged to speed up..." guy from the pilot, or that badly ADR-d guy in 'Shindig'), but they tend to stem from clients who misunderstand or downright abuse the system, not from the system/worldview itself. Simon's a doctor, Zoe's a soldier, Jayne's a thug, Inara's a Companion. None of these things are hobbies - they shape the way the characters live their lives, the way they interact with others, conceive of their situations, react to their environments. None of these can be dropped because they're inconvenient, they have to be acknowledged and worked around. Witness Zoe and Wash. Wash may not like it that Zoe will almost always follow Mal, or that her role in life takes her into dangerous situations; but he has to accept it, by and large, because that's who he married. Zoe and Wash are capable of compromise (even if it's sometimes achieved through shouting), but at the same time neither of them ever feels they're giving up too much, which is why their relationship works. Perhaps Inara and Mal, for all their obvious need for each other, would never reach that stage because their lives and worldviews are too incompatible.
Likewise, of course, Inara might want to rethink her vocab next time she describes Mal's occupation...
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