'Youths' in Paris continue to riot.
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Saturday, August 8, 2026 19:02
VIEWED: 6558
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And in case you haven't been following, the youth here are of North African decent, aka - MUSLIMS.( That's right, the religion of PEACE ) That little fact tends to not make it into the news articles. Wonder why.
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BOBIGNY, France (Reuters) - Rioters shot at police and fire fighter crews in the worst night of a week of violence in poor suburbs that ring Paris prompting France's prime minister on Thursday to vow to restore law and order.
Youths who rampaged overnight left a trail of burned cars, buses and shops in nine suburbs north and east of Paris, home to North African and black African minorities frustrated at their failure to get jobs or recognition in French society.
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin condemned the violence and said restoring order was his "absolute priority."
"I refuse to accept that organized gangs are laying down the law in certain neighborhoods … Law and order will have the last word," he told senators.
Rioters torched 177 vehicles and attacked a primary school and shopping center, local officials said. Four police officers and two firefighters were hurt, including one with facial burns from a Molotov cocktail.
Prefect Jean-Francois Cordet, the government's top official in the Seine-Saint-Denis region, confirmed shots had been fired at police and fire crews in three separate incidents.
Cordet did not say what sort of weapons had been fired but media said local police recovered shotgun cartridges from the scene at La Courneuve. No one was reported wounded.
Francis Masanet, secretary general of the UNSA police trade union, said: "It's a dramatic situation. It is very serious and we fear that the events could even get worse tonight."
FIRM BUT FAIR
Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, accused by opponents of enflaming passions with his outspoken attacks on the "scum" behind the violence, said 41 people had been detained overnight, and 143 in the past week.
"Faced with the seriousness of these events there is only one political line … firmness and justice," Sarkozy said.
"Firmness without justice, is extremism. Justice without firmness, is laxity. Our policy … is to be firm and fair," he told senators.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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I happen to agree with you again here. Osama Bin Laden and company is undoubtedly behind this little uproar. I think that the french have handled it quite stupidly, fueling the fire rather than dousing it, but that's to be expected, they're french.
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I happen to agree with you again here. Osama Bin Laden and company is undoubtedly behind this little uproar. I think that the french have handled it quite stupidly, fueling the fire rather than dousing it, but that's to be expected, they're french.
I agree only with different analysis.
The French acted stupidly by failing to stand in solidarity with the United States and Britain. France is behind much of the drawn out turmoil facing the world.
Had France locked arms with the United States at the head of a true Western Bloc of old and new Europe, America, and Middle Eastern moderates then there would be far less support for Bin Laddin's efforts. 5,000 French soldiers landing in Afganistan alongside American and British forces could have made the difference in crushing Bin Laddin in 2002. The arrival of a French contingent in the deserts of Kuwait or perhaps as part of a larger NATO buildup in Turkey would have successfully cowed Saddam Hussein.
France instead, acting under leaders drowning in illegal oil money, has actively undermined the international efforts to oppose terrorists and the states that support it. Now they are paying the price for their arrogence and laissez faire approach to the issue of Muslim extremist violence.
I suspect part of the shock the French people are feeling is that fear, deep down inside, that Bush is not the problem after all. It comes from the sudden realization that when you step on a subway in London or Paris or perhaps a bus in Jeusalem a train in Madrid a plane in Boston or go anywhere by any means at any time in Europe, Australia, the Middle East, or North America, the threat you may face is not American imperialism, its militant Jihadism. Thats when they pray to God that the man sitting across from them has an American military passport and not a vest lined with C-4 and ball bearings.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
here are of North African decent, aka - MUSLIMS.( That's right, the religion of PEACE ) That little fact tends to not make it into the news articles. Wonder why.Quote:
home to North African and black African minorities frustrated at their failure to get jobs or recognition in French society.
Wonder why?
Umm, I don't know, maybe because religion has nothing to do with this, as it states in the friggin' article? Sounds to me like poor people being discriminated against because of racial issues. Let's just blame Islam for everything now, is that it? It'll be a good change; maybe instead of hearing "but Clinton," we can start hearing "but Islam."
I can see it now. "'Hey Joe, the Canadians support gay marriage.' 'Gay marriage you say? That's just wrong.' 'I bet a Muslim lives in Canada.' Well, that must be it then, it's Osama's fault!'
Just becuase they are Islamics doesn't mean the flareups have anything to do with Osama. Not all Moslems are the same - don't the Christians in America say the same thing whenever one of that breed is doing something stupid?
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Hero:
I never supported the war in Iraq, but I do find it interesting that the nations that had just signed big oil deals with Iraq in 2003 were France, Germany and Russia...
And the countries that opposed the war in any form in the UN were France, Germany and Russia...
Just goes to prove everyones got hidden agendas...
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
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France instead, acting under leaders drowning in illegal oil money, has actively undermined the international efforts to oppose terrorists and the states that support it.
This is definitely part of the problem. As a friend of mine put it "The only reason Jacques Chirac isn't in jail is that he's president of France." Which apparently is litterally true. His position as president makes him immune to the indictments against him. Temporarily.
But I think there's more to France's coyness. I think they have a large unruly muslim population, and that a French entrance would have made France a target. What they didn't realize was that France would become a target anyway.
Osama Bin Laden hates white people. He's said so many times. In his world view, they're not as evil as jews, but they're complicit accomplices of jews, and so by extension they are evil. They are are also cultural imperialist capitalists, and so that makes them evil to.
So to Bin Laden jews=really evil, white people=evil, nazis are okay even though they're white because they're nationalist (culturally separatist,) socialist (anti=capitalist,) and they also hate jews, so it's a common enemy thing. If you ever check out what the nazis are up to, these day's they're always in league with muslims, and often speak very highly of bin laden, who is currently paying their bill. They seem to miss the inconsistancy, arabs being more semitic than jews.
But I digress, in France, he has Muslims to work with, which is much better for him. France's real big mistake here was probably, in all honesty, granting citizenship to muslims in their domain.
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Citizen,
I agree completely.
7%,
I don't agree. This is not just loose threads. Osama would never support gay marriage, btw. They don't really have very many muslims in Canada. Religion has everything to do with it. The french govt. has been at odds with it's mulsim population every since it let them in. It's not like these people needed to be in France, they had half a continent to themselves. They want french jobs because they pay better, and more importantly french welfare benefits. This is one of the problems with the social welfare state. You reward nonworking poverty and punish working self sufficiency, and eventually you just state attracting a ne'erdowell population and pushing away productivity. As this states to happen, the welfare burden grows, and the problem just snowballs.
But links to the uprisings lead directly back to Bin Laden. He's been active in France for several years now. Don't you remember even when we invaded Iraq, half the public statements Bin Laden was making were about headscarves in classrooms and that sort of stuff in France?
I have nothing against the French people at all, but they do have a serious case of bad govt. Anyway, I am pretty confident that Bin Laden is directly funding the malcontents in France against the French govt. I suspect the end result of this will be that France will come over to our side.
I'm not sure that this is how I want it to break down though. If it becomes all white industrial nations against poor Muslims, it will fuel the fire. I did think one of the advantages of Clinton's war in Kosovo, which I thought was botched almost as badly as this Iraq war, but it did have the advantage that the US intervened to protect poor muslims against white europeans, which took a lot of wind out of Bin Laden's sails. Unfortunately, the Iraq war has given him his second wind.
I refer back to the Hannity stuff I posted earlier, after 9-11, the overwhelming majority, some 98% of muslims, wanted Osama's head on a platter. I would add, that is probably partly due to the fact that his anti=american attacks had directly followed our kosovo intervention.
Here's what would have been much better. Saddam Hussein was also very unpopular with muslims, because he was highly secular, and not really much of a practicing muslim himself. If we had supported muslim insurgents, many of whom we are now fighting, against saddam hussein, the muslim world would have seem us as standing up for their rights instead of squashing them like bugs.
Unfortunately our PNAC doctrine unilateralist approach gave that squash 'em like bugs look to it, and the torture really threw the monkey wrench in the works.
Remember the order of this decay.
1. We go in unilaterally more or less, and people become suspicious of us, but not truly hostile.
2. We shut down Al Sadr's newspaper which had been harshly questioning our motives, and he raises an army of 10,000 to oppose us.
3. We broker a deal with Al Sadr, and for a while he is not against us, but working with us to form a new govt.
4. Abu Ghraib and related torture stories broke, and suddenly we have at least three jihads against us.
So there's no question about it, this was botched. It wasn't a forgone conclusion that they would hate us and love Bin Laden. Bin Laden will always hate us, that IS a forgone conclusion. The French should have seen this and tried to reach some compromise with us over tactics. If we could have approached this in a way that wouldn't have ended in jihad, I think they might've joined us, In spite of corrupt oil deals (as long as we had assured them that they get to keep the corrupt oil deals:) )
If you have a problem with that, here's one. Assure Chiraq he can keep his corrupt oil deals, and the attack his corrupt oil deals once the war or revolution or whatever is over. France isn't going to go to war against the US.
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I don't agree. This is not just loose threads. Osama would never support gay marriage, btw. They don't really have very many muslims in Canada.
No, of course he wouldn't, and I know they don't. My point was that everything that happens in the world today? Not Osama's doing. Otherwise, Bush really needs to be doing a lot better job finding him, don't you think?
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Religion has everything to do with it.
You say this, then you say this,
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They want french jobs because they pay better, and more importantly french welfare benefits.
in which you trash your own argument and make mine for me. Just because they are Islamic doesn't mean this chaos is directly connected with a religious issue. It's an economic issue, possibly heightened by religious tension. It is not a "religious" dispute.
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But links to the uprisings lead directly back to Bin Laden. He's been active in France for several years now. Don't you remember even when we invaded Iraq, half the public statements Bin Laden was making were about headscarves in classrooms and that sort of stuff in France?
Because it was a hotbutton issue, which was settled rather peacably, as I recall. France has a secular state and put their foot down. End of story. On the other hand, you - like AURaptor and Hero- seem to want to belive that all Muslims everywhere are the same and have the same goals. Chechnyan rebels, Iranians, and North African Muslims are all not the same. You aren't taking regional and ethnic differences into account when you make broad statements like this. The NA (Tunesian, Algerian, etc) Moslems are upset because they are treated as third class citizens. They are having the same border troubles in Europe that we have with the Mexican border here; which is an influx of a different culture that nobody wants due to a prevalence of good jobs and services (and in the case of France, the culture is starting to get mad about it). The French, the Germans, and the Scandinavian countries have managed to generally get along with this issue for years, but now it's coming to a head (as I suspect it will eventually in ours with Latin Americans).
Remember kids,
Moslem does not equal terrorist,
Riot does not equal BinLadin,
and
North African Moslem does not equal Saudi Moslem.
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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
This is not just loose threads. Osama would never support gay marriage, btw.
I wouldn't be so sure. We don't know what he's got on under those robes, but lets look at the facts. He prefers the company of men, he and his Taliban "friends can't even stand the sight of a woman. He's shown no interest in aquiring his own 72 virgins, prefering, again, his cave and "bodyguards".
Have you ever seen Bin Laddin with a woman? I know I haven't. I think he's all about playing for the other team and the Jihad business is deeply rooted in his desire to express love for his fellow terrorists in inappropriate ways. Then he arranges for their death via US missile strike...classic self loathing homosexual tendencies.
H
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Wonder why?
Umm, I don't know, maybe because religion has nothing to do with this, as it states in the friggin' article? Sounds to me like poor people being discriminated against because of racial issues. Let's just blame Islam for everything now, is that it? It'll be a good change; maybe instead of hearing "but Clinton," we can start hearing "but Islam."
I can see it now. "'Hey Joe, the Canadians support gay marriage.' 'Gay marriage you say? That's just wrong.' 'I bet a Muslim lives in Canada.' Well, that must be it then, it's Osama's fault!'
Just becuase they are Islamics doesn't mean the flareups have anything to do with Osama. Not all Moslems are the same - don't the Christians in America say the same thing whenever one of that breed is doing something stupid?
No, it's not so much a racial issue, but more cultural, and yes, religious. See, the immigrants didn't feel the need to assimilate w/ the glorious French socialist society. Instead, they basically kept to themselves and ran things as they wanted. When a citizen got tired of theft going on in that part of the town, the police were called. This offended the 'youth'. They were minding their own business ( doing what ever the hell they wanted to ) and didn't feel the law enforcement had any right to tell them what to do.
There is a growing conflict coming, and this is just another front. The Eurabian clash will only increase over the next decade, and beyond.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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