Loved Firefly, but Serenity *sucked* (SPOLIERS)
POSTED BY: Jusl89
UPDATED: Friday, December 16, 2005 22:26
VIEWED: 39034
PAGE 2 of 12
Gotta argue with you on one point:
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6. Jayne would not agree to go on a philanthropic "save the world" mission. This was way out of character. He didn't even ask what the payoff would be.
There was no payoff for Jayne in rescuing Mal and Wash in War Stories. Jayne lives in the 'verse, and the Reavers are often a threat to his life and livelihood. They may also have killed someone near and dear to him. I can see him getting pissed at who created them.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Well argued indeed!
You said everything I wanted to say back.
Just a note about Jayne. I think Jayne made a decision to follow Mal after Ariel. That convinced him Mal was worthy of his loyalty. And by asking him not to tell the others he gave away his feeling of family for them all. Jayne was as roped in as the rest of them to the destiny they all shared on this mission.
FollowMal
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the crew needed to experience that horror to push them on towards Miranda.
I agree with Grounded here and would further argue that Book's death was actually the device that restored Mal's "belief in something." Actually, I agree with all of Grounded's points.
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The problem I see with all these refutations of our disappointment is that they hinge on the idea that Joss somehow had to tell the story he told. He didn't. An artist has choices. Y'all say he had to change the story to make a movie, which may be true, but it doesn't mean he had to change the story in the manner he changed it. In another thread, I mentioned Batman Begins as a highly successful, cerebral, character driven action movie that made big, big bucks. To say that Joss had to make a popcorn movie just ain't so.
The huge problem with the "increase in tention" caused by Wash's death is that even the people who defend Joss's decision were taken out of the story by that event! Everyone is suddenly thrust into a meta-narrative of WWJD (what would Joss do?). We're not thinking about how our BDH's are going to deal with a specific problem in the story, we're thinking about how they're gonna deal with Joss Almighty. Aesthetically, killing Wash is nothing but a power trip, and only those of us who are obsessed with Joss's power (the hardcore fans) care. If he told a better story we'd all be thinking about what's happening to the characters in character terms, not hardcore fan terms. It's a huge error in judgement and a betrayal of the powerful sense of reality the show so effortlessly gave us week after week.
That Jayne's and Simon's relationship would evolve over several months is reasonable, but Joss didn't have to start the story so long after Objects in Space. More importantly, from a story standpoint, the changes should show some kind of logical progression--just saying "a lot can happen in seven months" is a cop-out. Joss was building a very specific kind of tention, with very specific and deep seated issues between these two characters. To simply replace it with a more expedient relationship is a betrayal of the story.
One thing though: I said I agreed with all of Jus's points, but I don't agree about Mal not killing the Operative. To the degree that the Mal of the movie holds any continuity with the Mal of the series, I bought it. Because Mal is not a hardass moral machine, he is a supple and surprising real human being with an amazing moral instinct. I'd say he was well aware of all the Operative had done, just as he figured out all of Jayne's actions on Ariel. Mal was able to rise out of the mechanism of revenge long enough to see a better way. That's the Mal I know and love, thru and thru.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
The problem I see with all these refutations of our disappointment is that they hinge on the idea that Joss somehow had to tell the story he told. He didn't. An artist has choices. Y'all say he had to change the story to make a movie, which may be true, but it doesn't mean he had to change the story in the manner he changed it. In another thread, I mentioned Batman Begins as a highly successful, cerebral, character driven action movie that made big, big bucks. To say that Joss had to make a popcorn movie just ain't so.
Much as I like Batman Begins, it descends into a fairly pedestrian final sequence.
Movies and TV series have different pacing requirements. Genre films are action films by definition because if its a story about 9 people living their lives, you can make Short Cuts/Magnolia etc for a fraction of the cost using real world locations.
There ain't nothing wrong with Pocorn movies - BB was a popcorn movie, Star Wars was a pop corn movie, Jaws was a pop corn movie.
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Aesthetically, killing Wash is nothing but a power trip, and only those of us who are obsessed with Joss's power (the hardcore fans) care. If he told a better story we'd all be thinking about what's happening to the characters in character terms, not hardcore fan terms. It's a huge error in judgement and a betrayal of the powerful sense of reality the show so effortlessly gave us week after week.
At its base level, every word a writer puts on the page is a "power trip". Killing Wash was what Joss decided the story needed - it set up the stakes for the final sequence. For me, after that, I wasn't convinced that anyone would make it out. I'm sorry you didn't agree with the choice, and that's your right, but I don't think it can be classed as a betrayal at any level.
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To simply replace it with a more expedient relationship is a betrayal of the story.
How was the relationship "expedient"? The film doesn't say that Jayne and Simon trust each other - they do however at that moment share a common cause.
"I threw up on your bed"
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I didn't get the bow and arrow either
Read here somewhere there's a deleted scene where the bow makes a guest appearance in the trunk Inara left in her shuttle.
DVD good, bring soon!
I mostly agree with what Grounded says. The movie needed to be this big, fast and hard for it to work at all. I didn't expect Joss to kill anyone (how'd I manage that being a big fan?).
Jus, please see if you can get yourself to go see it again. I know that must sound like torture, I wasn't sure I could watch Wash's death again. Bring someone who hasn't seen Firefly. That might really change your mind about the whole thing.
"Bright 'n shiny capt'n, not to fret."
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"Sucked" is too strong a word.
Maybe you thnk it could have been different -- I wouddl bet Joss would say the same thing at this point.
But to say it "sucked" is like throwing the baby away with the bathwater.
I cannot express how exciting it was to see our chicken-shaped spacecraft fly across the big screen! WHOO-HOO!!!!
Warts and all, I will forever rejoice gladly that Serenity made it to the big screen.
And yes, I want MORE MORE MORE!!!!
All you Serenity naysayers and "shouda-beeners" are just "big dam weenie-baits" IMHO.
Serenity needs our support, not our sniping.
Keep flyin,
MaTwang
"Carnivale -- it's not a show, it's a drug."
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Hypothetically, consider the reaction in the US to a revelation that the terrorists who struck on 9/11 were directly created and supported by the CIA.
I wouldn't say supported exactly, but seeing as how Osama Bin Laden was trained by the US to fight the Russians guerrilla-style in Afghanistan, this is pretty much what happened....
And for the record, I don't agree with pretty much any of the criticism against the BDM in this thread. I thought it was a wonderful, magnificent ending (?) to a great series, and every death was earned in full. However, I fully support your right to feel the way you feel about it - I'm just sorry the movie didn't fill you with joy as it did me.
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon
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Jus,
Welcome to the *I disliked it* camp. There are quite a few of us that were disappointed for some of the same reasons you pointed out.
It has been argued a lot in other threads so I won't go into the same detail again.
"There is nothing more American than insulting people who do not share your opinions"
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Jus - for more *I disliked it* POV's.
Oops, meant to paste the links to the previous threads. So, if you would like to read more on this subject - here you go:
http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13640#189666
http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=12689#182582
http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13372#188332
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