Anyone else disappointed?
POSTED BY: sagrilarus
UPDATED: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:05
VIEWED: 41679
PAGE 10 of 14
Way to say it Kestrel!!
A remark generally hurts in proportion to its truth
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Looks like you're getting the last word, Kestrel. And I think you summed it up nicely. Not short, but nice. Worth the read.
Sag.
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Here, here Kestrel! Trust me, you and others have put voice to the frustrations of legions of Firefly (not Serenity!) fans!
Than
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hothersale:
Have you seen it more than once? Personally, I found the ARROW'D so upsetting that it was hard to really enjoy the movie the first time round. I enjoyed it MUCH more on subsequent viewings. If you haven't already, I suggest watching it again to see if it's the same for you.
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Cheers for spoiling the movie, asshat.
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Hello. I'm new here. I'm one of those longtime Firefly fans (well, at least a year) who has gotten more involved given the advent of the movie and my hopes for it.
I wasn't all that disappointed. I felt like there were some medium-specific changes (some things work better on movies than on TV and vice versa) and some simplification for people unfamiliar with the Firefly saga before the movie, but overall it felt like a BDEpisode of Firefly.
In particular, I wanted to address the idea that Mal is more of a coward now than in the show. I REALLY don't see that being the case. He was always running away on the show. IT's kidn of what he does:
In "Heart of Gold" his first idea is for them all to run.
In "Shindig" he says "I never back down from a fight" to which Innara replies, "You do it all the time!"
And, overall, his basic mode is evade the Alliance, keep moving, run from place to place.
I don't think this makes him a coward, but he doesn't get into conflict when he doesn't have to.
(It's interesting to compare Mal's attitude about avoiding conflict to Jayne's. For Mal, the things that force him to fight are matters of doing what's right. For Jayne, it's personal gain (though that gets called into question at times when he seems a little more noble). Neither of them, though, fight for the sake of fighting, or against overwhelming odds, unless they have to,)
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I liked it. I think there were weakpoints, flaws even, but overall it didn't suck. I was caught by surprise when Wash and Book died, but neither bothered me. I figure the show is about Simon and River more than it is about Mal and Zoe, and outside of that Jayne and Kaylee are the only characters I care about particularly, so an awful lot of characters are pretty much expendable to the story. I suspect death of Simon or River would through the storyline into chaos, as possibly would the death of Mal. The death of everyone else wouldn't kill it, and I knew some characters were going to die and was just glad it wasn't Kaylee or Jayne.
Overall the film wasn't completely clean, some things definitely fail to add up the way the trolls on IMDb say, but that is often true in the show, and no other sci fi show has ever really been free of this problem. It's worth seeing.
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Sorry. A week after the NA debut, I forget that people elsewhere may not have seen it yet. Anyway, I've edited my post. I suggest you do too, lest you be guilty of the same sin.
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@Lozords:
And what did you expect from a thread titled "Anyone else disappointed?" Seriously, if you wanted to avoid spoilers then you should really avoid threads titled like these as they will tend to discuss the movie by definition. In fact, you might want to avoid such forums altogether until you see the movie to negate the possibility of being spoiled. Many have, myself included. So, unless you're will to do that, I'd expect to be spoiled. So, don't bitch at us because you haven't be careful.
@Teraph:
I thought of the second one you brought up but thought that it wasn't possible due to a philosophy like this being independent of whom one works for.
I don't know about the second one. Interesting idea, but...
I also don't remember the line being exactly that. Maybe when it comes out on DVD I'll get to hear it again. Because if it is the quote you say, it does change things. Can anyone else confirm? (No offense, just the human mind is a tricky thing and the more people say it is something the more confident I'll be in that it is indeed true.)
I'm just having trouble with the whole thing as I know too much about Oriental history/culture/etc. It's my burden, I know that. Just having trouble with it.
Do you have a link to the script?
@Sep7IMus:
Mal has run away when the odds are not in his favour before. But from the dialogue, etc from the movie, I got the feel that it was running for reasons of a coward and not for reasons like before.
Just like any reference from the show, you must provide proper context is there. And from what I've seen, your examples don't hold up to that.
Mal, I think is more along the lines of fighing for profit and if it is for good as well, the super. But, if push comes to shove, then he'll do it for the right thing. Friends are different though. He'll fight for a friend to the death if need be.
Jayne, does it for profit clear and simple. It has always been his guiding light. There are times in the show when he did things not for profit, but there has been other circumstances that provide adequate motivation for this to happen.
ie When Jayne goes to save Mal from Niska. First off, this is right after he almost got sucked out into space because of screwing Mal and knows that he exists at that point by the grace of Mal and no other. Plus I think that he will attempt to avoid such non-profit endeavors (remember him calling what they were doing "suicide" while Zoe and Wash were preparing?) but will go along if it will make him look bad. He seems to care about what the others think of him to some degree.
@RocketJock:
Simon was out of character. Remember when he was supposed to play a rich guy going to buy mud (rather akin to him growing up as a rich kid, right?), but completely messing it up?
I would gather that he was more calm in Ariel because he was educated and trained to be calm in a hospital for many years of his life and he was one of the best. You don't act weak and such when you had the experience of being king of the hill for years.
I agree that Kaylee's vibrator line of in character. Perhaps a little more vulgar than she would've done it, but in character none-the-less.
Your analysis of Jayne is flawed in that it doesn't take into context the situation that motivated him to do those things. Everything has context, lets stay there. Not to mention that Jayne would never go on a mission that was almost guaranteed to kill him just to get some knowledge. Just isn't Jayne.
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-David Suzuki
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
@Sep7IMus:
Mal has run away when the odds are not in his favour before. But from the dialogue, etc from the movie, I got the feel that it was running for reasons of a coward and not for reasons like before.
Just like any reference from the show, you must provide proper context is there. And from what I've seen, your examples don't hold up to that.
Why not, exactly? I don't think I see the distinction you're making. I figured we all knew the context. How does it change the fact that he ran (with, I think, good reason)?
Quote:
Mal, I think is more along the lines of fighing for profit and if it is for good as well, the super. But, if push comes to shove, then he'll do it for the right thing. Friends are different though. He'll fight for a friend to the death if need be.
Okay, I agree with that characterization of Mal. How are his actions in the movie any different? I don't remember him running when there was a profit to be made, when fighting would be for the right thing, or when fighting would be for friends/crew. Does he run in any of those instances in the movie? If so, that would seem out of character to me.
Quote:
Jayne, does it for profit clear and simple. It has always been his guiding light. There are times in the show when he did things not for profit, but there has been other circumstances that provide adequate motivation for this to happen.
ie When Jayne goes to save Mal from Niska. First off, this is right after he almost got sucked out into space because of screwing Mal and knows that he exists at that point by the grace of Mal and no other. Plus I think that he will attempt to avoid such non-profit endeavors (remember him calling what they were doing "suicide" while Zoe and Wash were preparing?) but will go along if it will make him look bad. He seems to care about what the others think of him to some degree.
Yeah, I agree with this, too. Though, I might be a little more sympathetic to Jayne than you are, and I might attribute a little more of his eventual helping out in nonprofit fights to some hidden goodness in him rather than just on a desire to look good (though I do think that's there, too).
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In the future, when referring to characters and their traits, can we please refer to them as from the movie or the series, like "Series Mal" or "Movie Jayne." Due to the vast changes in the characters, this distinction will be necessary to understand where someone is coming from.
Hey -- it's my thread. I just couldn't resist saying that.
Sag.
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