Anyone else disappointed?
POSTED BY: sagrilarus
UPDATED: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:05
VIEWED: 41679
PAGE 4 of 14
Simon wasn't a wuss when it came to protecting River. He knocked down the two guys in "Safe," he thought up of the plan to infiltrate the hospital in "Ariel," and he tried to fight Jubal Early even though he knew that he had no chance.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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I was not knocking Simon I was using the term with affection he was gentle not Jayne!!
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I was not knocking Simon I was using the term with affection he was gentle not Jayne!!
Thinking up the Aerial plan proves he was a thinker not muscle!
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I was only disappointed in the deaths, but not the movie in general. I loved the movie! Of course, being a movie, it had to have a certain amount of extra action and conflict. So, in that respect, some of the actions of the characters were a litle more pronounced, maybe a little more aggressive, than they would be in one of the tv episodes. Like Mal threatening to shoot everybody if they didn't put the bodies on the hull of the ship, ahd the aggressive scenes between him and Simon were a little much. But I looked past those little things and I found the characters to be true to their tv counterparts. Loved Jayne! Loved Kaylie's comments! Of course, the best part of the firefly series for me was the relationships between the characters and the comedy, but sci-fi movies don't tend to do well with too much of that. So if the extra action and conflict brings more people to the theater, and helps ressurect this show somehow, I'm all for it!
Please, oh please let there be a sequel!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlowSmurf:
The movie WAS different, why can't people grasp that? Liberties were taken when he chose to. Mal/Simon being the most obviously changed.
BASED ON, not a direct continuation.
For example, there's no way in hell Mal from the show would resort to telling the doctor to basically go to hell as he does at the start of Serenity. Once he uttered the words(on the series), "You're on my crew", that remains. I highly doubt Mal would ever take that back except by the other person choosing to leave or Mal himself killing said person. Jayne flatout betrays him on the series, he remains crew.
You are right. It was a little different. I just don't think, being that the characters had only been developed over one season, that anything I saw was completely out of character. Yes, Mal was a little aggressive with the Doctor, but remember, Inara had been gone for 8 months or something? There may be some back story in those 8 months that would explain the tension between them. Thank goodnes Jayne was as rougish and predictable as ever!
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Quote:
Originally posted by sagrilarus:Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
SAGRILARUS, I wasn't responding to your complaints about the characters, which are pretty vague, except for the example about Kaylee and the vibrator. I was responding about your inability to suspend disbelief while watching the movie.
I suspended my disbelief just fine. I have no concerns with the plot. The characters have been irreversibly changed. Watch the episodes again -- the characters have MAGNIFICENT definition. By the end of the pilot you really have an insight into who they are; you want to know them better. They are clear, concise. They have mysterious aspects, but they are consistent. The film just ignored all that. Pretty vague? I sure am. I have no idea how to describe the fact that the same actors seemed to be playing different people, with different motivations and actions.
Vague is an excellent choice of terms. In the series, the characters weren't vague. Now they are. I have no idea what they would be like if a sequel were to be made. I don't know these people anymore. They are undefinable.
Sag.
I watched the whole series over the past couple weeks, and the only thing that disappoined me a little in the characters was that he made it all about Mal, Simon, and River. For each character there either seemed to be an overabundance or a lack of dialogue. Because of this change in dynamic, it made characters seem different because you expected them to say something at certain points in the movie, but they didn't. I personally found, that what they DID say, however, was completely in character. They just didn't say enough, so it may have seemed contrived in certain circumstances. Am I making any sense? It's late here......
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Your comments are still pretty vague; you still haven’t given any specific examples. Yes, Mal was darker in the movie and he was more concerned with surviving than protecting the feelings of the crew.
Mal was most certainly different. Just ask yourself, if Simon would have hit Mal in the series, would Mal have just taken it, or would he have fought back? Truth is, Simon would have gotten somewhat bruised in series Mal.
I'd also like to know what your definition of darker is. Mal was a coward. Mal was angry. That is pretty much it for his emotional range for the movie.
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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Zoe was the same, following orders even if it conflicted with her personal beliefs.
Not really. If Zoe was the same she would've backed up Mal with his decision to not take on the extra man on the Mule. It wasn't worth the risk when absolute death is involved. Mal had already done his best to save the man when he told them all to get into the vault. Zoe would've known this in the series. But in the movie, she questioned his decision/morality/etc for doing it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Jayne was the same, more concerned with survival than anything else.
How? When they were planning on going into Reaver territory Jayne didn't protest. But, in the series, just have a Reaver ship pass by scared him enough to start to shake. Plus, he was made far more stupid in the movie than the show.
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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Kaylee was the same, although less spunky that she used to be.
Kaylee was almost the same. So, we pretty much agree here. She should've played more of a part though.
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Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Simon was a bit more aggressive but otherwise unchanged, very protective of River just like in the show.
LOL. Simon was completely changed. He went from the bumbling fool, remember Jaynes Town when he played the part of the buyer and completely screwed it up. How about whenever he attempted to talk to Kaylee?
But in the movie he went to, I'm so smooth and great under pressure, that I can infltrate one of the most secure military falcilities in the 'verse and pull off an rescue.
Bullshit.
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
River, she’s probably the character that changed the most, she’s much more lucid and less insane.
Nah, Mal and Simon where the most changed. She just had her story progress too quickly. I don't know what was in the comics (yet), but in the series there were definitly hints at military apps for her. Plus we don't know what Simon might have done for her in the months, show end to movie begin. etc. It is plausible for her to have become that lucid in the time frame given.
I just don't like, how military they made her.
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Unfortunately, Wash, Book, and Inara really didn’t get enough scenes for me to get a reading of their characters, and Inara did seem kind of out of place.
Wash and Book were both pretty much footnotes. That pissed me off.
But Inara, entering a fight between Mal and The Operative?!?! Whenever there was a fight in the series, she always just got out of the way (and pulled Kaylee out of the way with her ie the train job). Not to mention, where the hell did she get that flash thingy and know when to use it. Can we say, out of character/not realistic.
Seriously
----
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-David Suzuki
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Quote:
Mal was most certainly different. Just ask yourself, if Simon would have hit Mal in the series, would Mal have just taken it, or would he have fought back? Truth is, Simon would have gotten somewhat bruised in series Mal.
I'd also like to know what your definition of darker is. Mal was a coward. Mal was angry. That is pretty much it for his emotional range for the movie.
Mal did put River’s life at risk and he knows how protective of River Simon is, plus he did threaten to kill Simon. By dark I mean morbid and detached. Mal was angry a lot but how was he a coward?
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Not really. If Zoe was the same she would've backed up Mal with his decision to not take on the extra man on the Mule. It wasn't worth the risk when absolute death is involved. Mal had already done his best to save the man when he told them all to get into the vault. Zoe would've known this in the series. But in the movie, she questioned his decision/morality/etc for doing it.
She questioned Mal’s choice to leave Simon and River behind although it wasn’t as direct as the way she questioned Mal in the movie. Plus she probably feels more responsible for the man’s death considering how she was the one who disarmed him.
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How? When they were planning on going into Reaver territory Jayne didn't protest. But, in the series, just have a Reaver ship pass by scared him enough to start to shake. Plus, he was made far more stupid in the movie than the show.
Jayne does have some decency; look at the end of “Jaynestown,” if given the choice he probably would have sacrificed himself to save that kid’s life and he probably does still have some lingering fear of Mal from the Ariel incident. How did they make Jayne dumber? There was only one Jayne is stupid joke in the movie.
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LOL. Simon was completely changed. He went from the bumbling fool, remember Jaynes Town when he played the part of the buyer and completely screwed it up. How about whenever he attempted to talk to Kaylee?
But in the movie he went to, I'm so smooth and great under pressure, that I can infltrate one of the most secure military falcilities in the 'verse and pull off an rescue.
Bullshit.
Simon isn’t a bumbling fool when he has to help River.
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Wash and Book were both pretty much footnotes. That pissed me off.
But Inara, entering a fight between Mal and The Operative?!?! Whenever there was a fight in the series, she always just got out of the way (and pulled Kaylee out of the way with her ie the train job). Not to mention, where the hell did she get that flash thingy and know when to use it. Can we say, out of character/not realistic.
Inara trained Mal to fence, she knows how to fight. Plus she spent a year with Mal; she must have learned something from him, like how to fight dirty.
"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam
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Quote:
Originally posted by sagrilarus:
At the risk of having a hit called out on me, I'll keep the details of my opinions quiet. But I was very disappointed with the movie. With any luck, I am the only one. No one else here seems to be expressing that feeling. Just thought I'd toss it out and see if I'm alone or not.
You obviously haven't seen my post about Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out. Course, my post covers only 2 specific details.
I aim to misbehave!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Mal did put River’s life at risk and he knows how protective of River Simon is, plus he did threaten to kill Simon. By dark I mean morbid and detached. Mal was angry a lot but how was he a coward?
Have you seen the movie? He kept running and running and running. That is until Book got killed. That was pretty much at the end.
He backed down from Simon. I'll say that again. HE BACKED DOWN FROM SIMON.
How much more do you need it spelled out for you?
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
She questioned Mal’s choice to leave Simon and River behind although it wasn’t as direct as the way she questioned Mal in the movie. Plus she probably feels more responsible for the man’s death considering how she was the one who disarmed him.
There's a difference between, directly questioning him, which is out of character for her.
And you might want to think about this. Here's my opinion but whatever you decide I'll back you.
The fomer is the movie, the latter the series. They are distinctly different.
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Jayne does have some decency; look at the end of “Jaynestown,” if given the choice he probably would have sacrificed himself to save that kid’s life and he probably does still have some lingering fear of Mal from the Ariel incident. How did they make Jayne dumber? There was only one Jayne is stupid joke in the movie.
Funny you should mention Jaynestown. I just watched it literally, 4 hrs ago.
So, you're conjecture about him sacrificing himself is no, he wouldn't be willing to do that. There is a difference between being sad or fustrated with something that happened and willing to do something that drastic to change it. You are seeing a kindness that doesn't exist in him.
You do realize that from the same ep you mention, it gets known that he tossed his own partner out of a hovercraft at 20-30 feet out for the sake of profit, right?
Jayne also wouldn't be scared of any reprocussions that long after that incident. 1) It is at least questionable to say that he even thinks about it anymore 2) Everyone already knows what he did; at least Simon, River and Mal knows. It'd be hard to keep something like that a secret.
And how would him objecting to something that Mal proposed be oooo so scary for him? Mal might kill him if he said anything.
Mal: What happens when the money is good enough?
Jayne: Well, that'll be an interesting day.
That ring a bell?
About him being stupid. Next time you see it, just listen to his dialog. There is a difference between making fun of someone that is stupid and being stupid. Of course for the former to hold weight the latter must be true. But, just because the latter is true, doesn't make the former a necessity.
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Simon isn’t a bumbling fool when he has to help River.
Actually he is. Remember when he jumped over the railing in Serenity (ep not movie) while the fed was hauling her out? Rather hasty and screwed it up. If Mal hadn't come along there would've been a rather nasty situation.
What about when he tried to help River in Objects in Space?
He is a bumbling fool when he has to help River. Just because he's willing to put himself in danger doesn't change this.
Quote:
Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Inara trained Mal to fence, she knows how to fight. Plus she spent a year with Mal; she must have learned something from him, like how to fight dirty.
You are making the leap from trained to fence to knowing how to fight which is completely unjustified.
Just because someone is trained to use a blade in principle, does not mean that you were trained to use it in combat. Ask anyone that's taken a martial arts course. If you are going into a tournament, you are pulled aside for "extra" training. You can read that last part as, ok, we've taught
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