Anecdotal evidence of psychic abilities; any 'readers' out there?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, September 22, 2005 21:54
VIEWED: 4733
PAGE 4 of 5
'Afraid' was a very bad choice of words on my part, but it did spark quite an interesting and lively debate here.
And as usual, HK spelled out how I feel about all this way better than I ever could have, he must read books and stuff ("To read makes our speaking English better.").
Sub-literate Chrisisall
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Cavalier, you said:
"Science, by its nature, relies on a psychically empty, inanimate world on the other side of our five senses. Science may not be afraid, but psychic phenomena definitely threaten science as we know it at its core."
I agree. That was very well written, as was all of your post. However, you implied something to which I take exception, and that is: "...the universe tends to show what it wants to show--and to whom."
Psychic ability can be developed, and by anyone, I believe, given a desire to learn and a suitable environment. The ability to experience what we commonly call psychic ability is enhanced by solitude and silence. By that, I mean when one is far distant from all other people and all radio and TV transmissions. Not that one just turns off the TV, but that there are no TV and very few radio transmissions at all.
To the person wanting to expand his psychic abilities, such an environment will aid greatly in their development. Meditation helps. Also, as one comes to trust his psychic abilities, they will develop more quickly and with greater strength. When one comes to trust them completely, and have absolute faith in one's...hunches, feelings, urges, inner knowledge, they will do things for the person that he never would have believed had he not gone that route.
I speak here from very strong personal experience, having spent several years in very remote areas with zero people around. I came to know when a squirrel was watching me as I walked through the woods, because I could feel his eyes on me. Most wild animals know when you're watching them, particularly deer. The person living more like a wild animal than most of us will ever experience also develops these abilities, which I believe are in all of us. I had wild bird and animal friends who communicated very well with me. (I have photographic proof of this, but cannot share pictures with anyone at this time. Suffice to say I'm speaking from long and strong personal experience.)
In short, almost anyone can develop his/her psychic abilities if the desire to do so exists. Of course, some have these abilities without having made much overt effort. Some, however, vehemently deny the possibility of there being anything in existence that they can't see. For them, I just turn on the radio. Think about that. Our air is filled with unseen transmissions. If you're "tuned in" to them, you'll pick them up as "psychic phenomena." At night, when most folks sleep, many an artist does his best work because the background noise is diminished, and the artist can more easily tune in to his subconscious. More later.
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CUNKNOWN,
You seem to have major limitations in your background and/or experiences. Are you not aware of the use of remote viewing by many government's secret services? Are you not aware that it works for some folks?
You're a doubter and that's fine, but please don't put your limitations on those who know better. I don't mean to disparage your thoughts, but it's evident you are not capable of feeing things that others are, or you'd never have made your statements.
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Quote:What an eloquent and tantalizing postulate! You are a pleasure to read.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Consciousness is believed to define the "subjective" and the material world is said to define the "objective."...then so-called objective reality has habits and opinions and interests of its own that interfere with scientific inquiry at every turn...
Consciousness is studied objectively by scientists all the time. Human habits, opinions, interests, and choices are observed, hypothesized, experimented on, and theorized by some of the best scientific minds in the world. See, there is no subject science can't tackle. Religion, mysticism, paranormal phenomena, astrology, human irrationality, subjectivity itself--they can all be studied systematically and objectively. If reality has a consciousness, its willful interference would just be another variable to factor in. Psychologists have to do it routinely when studying human behavior. It's OK.
Quote:Scientists might be threatened by a paradigm revolution. They are human after all, with a lifetime of investments in what little knowledge they think they have. But *science* can't be threatened by anything. Contrary to popular misconception, science is not WHAT we know, but HOW we know. It is the question, and the journey one takes to find answers to the question. It is not the answer itself, and therefore cannot be threatened by opposing answers.
Science may not be afraid, but psychic phenomena definitely threaten science as we know it at its core.
Science has many, many limitations, and is not the best method to use to explore all questions. (That is why we have religion, philosophy, art, music, sports and Joss Whedon.) It doesn't mean though, that science is in competition with these other experiences and methods. Science is not exclusive or superior, even though some people might make it out to be that way.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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This Thread got longer in my absence!
Forgive me if my sentences are Illegible, I just got back from Germany, where I have been partaking of the Oktoberfest...
Quote:
Originally posted by CUnknown:
There is a famous example of psychic abilities being disproved back in the 1800's (I think). The guy's name was Mesmer and he had this whole cult of people following him--he was famous enough that a group of prominent scientists (including Benjamin Franklin, if I remember right) got interested in him and his "abilities." Using the scientific method, he was exposed as a hoax and his following eventually disapeared. I'm sure the same could be done for any paranormal or psychic phenomenon you care to name.
Hmm, sounds more like blind faith to me, rather than any scientific method I've ever come across
...Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."
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Thanks for your warm welcome, HK. Seattle must be a cool place to live. We are definitely simpatico.
Hmmmm, much going on since last I lurked...some of the posts containing the sort of reaction that makes me reluctant to go deeper into my experience here. Sort of like roller skating blindfolded around a big hole in the floor in a department store, do I or don't I?!
Seems that there are two viewpoints that are miles apart; the world is alive and we are inextricably bound to it all-spirit, matter, thought, and heart OR the world is not alive and through our intellect we can make sense out of it all. Having a poet's sensibilities, the former comes more naturally to me. I like to imagine that the two camps are not so opposed--anyone reading Annie Dillard's observations of nature could squint really hard and see the intersection occur.
Always takes me so long to get my thoughts out, so I'll have to continue later.
milagroisall
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Ladron? Estas escribiendo del Cristobal? Nada mas que ladron de mi corazon.
Sorry for the long lag in response time. Poets? Octavio Paz, Neruda, Gerald Stern, Antonio Machado, Sylvia Plath, Louise Gluck, Issa, Basho and Buson...
just getting back to it, so lots more to read.
I'm a half-breed. Dominican father, white mother by way of Queens, New York, that great melting pot of the USA. My Spanish could be better, working on that...
Don't want to throw the thread off, so continue with the great turn this topic has taken. Going to hear Daisy Fried read her poems tonight
milagroisall
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Milagro,
"...ladron de mi corazon!"
How very nicely put! I surely would never disparage the good Cristobal, as I'm sure you must know.
Sadly, as I expected, I'm not familiar with the poets you named. My personal favorites among the world of literature run to John Steinbeck, some Richard Bach, Conan Doyle, George Frederick Ruxton, and Thoreau.
Like you, I won't distort this thread further. Thanks for your kind response, and best wishes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Cavalier, you said:
"Science, by its nature, relies on a psychically empty, inanimate world on the other side of our five senses. Science may not be afraid, but psychic phenomena definitely threaten science as we know it at its core."
I agree. That was very well written, as was all of your post. However, you implied something to which I take exception, and that is: "...the universe tends to show what it wants to show--and to whom."
Ruxton, compañero, thank you for the compliment. Sometimes I say exactly what I mean to say.
The second quote, yeah, not so much. There's a far more complicated explanation for the context than I feel up to going into right now. Suffice it to say that I've been reading Rudolf Steiner again.
I found your post really very beautiful; made me want to drop everything, jump in the car and get clear of all this for a while. Remind me why any sane creature would live down here in the electro-magnetic furnace, would ya?
You are quite right, anyone can develope their psychic awareness in exactly the way you describe. Psychic awareness is such a natural part of interaction with the non-human world; it is part of the basic kit all animals have for negotiating reality. We in the post-industrial west have been so long surounded with the things of man that many of us have utterly forgotten our natures. Isn't that astonishing?
Thanks again for sharing another side of Ruxton with us.
P.S: I'm holding you to that "More later" of yours.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Seems that there are two viewpoints that are miles apart; the world is alive and we are inextricably bound to it all-spirit, matter, thought, and heart OR the world is not alive and through our intellect we can make sense out of it all.
It seems that I am one of the few people in this discussion presenting an opposition opinion, but I reject the idea that I am necessarily saying the latter thing in the quote here.
I was mainly reacting to the idea that science is at all frightened of psychic phenomena, something which is demonstratably false (ask any scientist). I am also reacting to the idea that paranormal phenomena threaten science--if true, these phenomena would simply be fit into the already existing scientific framework (which is well established). The odds that the various psychic claims of people on this board (and elsewhere) are real should seem small to any rational, dispassionate person. The odds that the claims are real, -and- that they will point to a flaw in some well-established scientific theory are so remote as to be not worth discussion.
Quote:
It makes me so angry that ignorance like yours is the norm in the western world; that you can waltz in here with your false certainty and label someone like Knibblet a charlatan or a fool and not realize that you're simply carrying on the work of Popes and inquisitors and despots throughout history.
Wow! Something of an over-reaction, huh?
It's a sad state of affairs when reason is labeled as ignorance and those who defend it are said to be despots. Freedom and rational thought go hand in hand. Reason is actually a liberating force--you've got things backwards. The ideals of freedom and democracy our country was founded on were inspired by the Enlightenment.
Quote:
P.S: Sorry, to come off all harsh like this, but I'd really like you to think twice before you post this kind of insensitive and ignorant attack in the future. My intent is not that you censor yourself, but that you be mindful of the emotional violence you may commit and post without reflexively discounting highly personal information people have been generous enough to share with you.
HKCavalier
I wasn't attacking anyone. I certainly won't let you bully me into silence by using charged phrases like "emotional violence." Try again.
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