Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out
POSTED BY: fireflygal
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 18:37
VIEWED: 62576
PAGE 14 of 23
Well...the answer to your questions, "Why", should be apparent based on the number of responses to the topic. No one who has seen the movie is "happy" that Wash is gone. EVERYONE would like to know more about Book.
What makes Joss' writing so powerful is the emotional value of his characters and what they mean to the audience. You wouldn't have become so attached during Firefly if he had given you any less than he did. And with a shorter, more intense dose of the 'verse in the form of a movie, comes the reality that life in the black is dangerous, and that consequences can't be stretched out over the next 5 hours of show. They need to be immediate, and in some cases they NEED to be brutal. You wouldn't be as emotional about this film if no one died. You may have had a bit of a skip to your step, but that wouldn't be true to the nature of the story. And I feel that this story was more important to me because it made me feel so strongly. Feeling something so strongly, even if it is negative, is a real gift. frankly there are too many apathetic souls out there, and empathy is lost as a whole, unfortunately. But this emotion is so potent, and that only comes once in a while.
Now, it is up to the individual to decide if that is the kind of entertainment you want. Many folks only want a happy ending, and to feel good at the end of the day. That is your choice. But to deny the sadness also weakens the beauty.
I don't think that Joss betrayed us. I think that he treated us like the intelligent fanbase that we are. We have always been treated like his accelerated pupils, and sometimes life's lessons are hard. But it is through these darknesses that the light shines so brightly.
I can understand people who have seen the movie and are so sad they become mad, but what I cannot stand for is people who haven't seen the movie and won't because of the spoilers. That makes me very irate and makes me believe you didn't "get it" in the first place. My answer to that is "no loss". I will be seeing it enough for those few, anyway.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cerenity:
I don't think that Joss betrayed us. I think that he treated us like the intelligent fanbase that we are. We have always been treated like his accelerated pupils, and sometimes life's lessons are hard. But it is through these darknesses that the light shines so brightly.
Amen, Cerenity! Very well stated. I would just like to add a quote from Joss from several years ago:
"I do not give the audience what they want - I give the audience what they need."
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon
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1) There is no excuse for you to threaten someone's life just because he is killing off two of your characters. You are drifting into a real life felony here.
2) Joss loves to shake things up. Consider yourself shaken. Okay, this isn't the real world. In the real world when people fight, people die. And it is A LOT worse than in the movies. This ain't Star Wars.
One of the things I always admired about Joss was his decisions to kill off a main character. Only in this 'verse, they won't be coming back to life.
3) If the movie is a BIG hit. Say >$200 million. There is no way Firefly/Serenity will ever return to the small screen, since the actors would have to take too much of a pay cut. That means subsequent movies. Joss has already said he is likely to produce the pre-quells which are out as comic books since he has already sketched them out. That means Books is back for at least one movie (I haven't read the comic books, so how extensive he is in it, I know not. Second, Wash is back.)
So chill, and keep the secrets contained within this movie so others can be surprised.
In war, truth is the first casualty. -- Aeschylus.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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I think the two things we all agree on is to disagree AND that those who saw Serenity think it was a great movie (regardless of whether we were happy with certain parts). I do agree with everyone who mentioned that those who hate the movie and don't want to see it based on what they've heard, should still go see it and show support and judge it as a WHOLE movie, then still be pissed that Book and Wash died.
I aim to misbehave!
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Maybe my new personal tagline for Joss is "He has done the unthinkable, and that makes me whiny." I fell in love with Nine. Nine, not Seven of Nine (although "Seven of Nine" in Star Trek was a total hottie. But I digress.). So yeah, part of my frustration is the loss of two of the ensemble.
But another part of my frustration is my perception of a shift from the homey, ambling, aged, earth-tones flavor of Firefly into the buzzing driven imminent steeliness of Serenity. Where I felt Firefly to be very 'Yin,' Serenity feels quite 'Yang.' (I'm basing this off of how 'Versal has chosen to promote in the trailers.) To some extent it is the nature of the medium: first-shot movies supposedly don't lend as well to 'ambling' as tv does. But that doesn't change for me that Firefly and Serenity have very different, umm, timbres.
Anybody else out there who is still following this thread is either a glutton for punishment, or like me is enjoying the (generally) respectful exchange of ideas and emotions on this subject. So for whomever is still on this ride, mind if I pose a question for you?. This'll call for very cold detachment and, for those who've already seen Serenity, you gotta pretend like it was never made. We'll all keep this civil and fun, hopefully?
Step back to just after the tv show ended, and tell me:
If YOU had to write a movie to follow the tv show, and you HAD to choose TWO of the nine to kill off in YOUR own way,
Which two would you choose to kill?
I'll go first. I'da chosen Kaylee because she does not drive any of the main story arcs, and I'da chosen Doc Simon because the crew could take over on the nurturing behavior (medical skills notwithstanding). Maybe make both of 'em both go out together in some sort of romantic "lovers' leap."
Anyone else wanna engage in this morbid and creepifying speculation with me? Like this thread, no right or wrong answers.
zipply
(Lurker, generally speaking. I'm known to some.)
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Who would I kill?
Book and Inara. Neither of them is a crew-member.
River, I'd keep on for a while because she's fun to watch, and without her, Simon has no purpose.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I've seen the BDM twice so-far, once in May and once in June. I still think it is the best movie of the year.
I also am of the opinion that Wash and Book's deaths were necessary. It put that element of danger into the finale of the film. I sat there in the theater, watching Zoe get shot and Mal get shot and I truly wondered to myself, was ANYONE, including Serenity herself, going to survive the film? Did Joss really mean it when he said he was going to use the opportunity the movie presented to tie up loose ends the series left dangling by literally tying up everyone and gutting them? As a result, until that final scene and the house light came back up, I was on the edge of my seat wondering how it would turn out! It was exciteing! It was frustrating! It made me want more! Which, you must admit, is Joss' overriding reason.
I have to say, I truly understand why Joss did what he did, and while it saddened me, I can't disagree with it.
How many times have you gone to see a Star Trek film, knowing the main characters could not die (okay, with one exception in STII, but everyone knew that was coming before they even set foot in the theater) and that took away some of the tension and excitement for you because you knew they were 'safe' ? 
I'm sorry, but I must be on the disagreeing side of this discussion.
Captain Pete
"What can Brown do for you?"
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Just saw it a few hours ago and it devestated me. I think it's remembering how happy he was, on the ship and with Zoe, and how it all oddly seems real and textured now because of his and Book's death.
I wish they hadn't died, but I know and agree with why Joss did it. It was a cruel blow, and unexpected for me, and though I was stealing myself for something like this I thought I'd be able to handle it better.
I began to cry when we saw the graves with the flickering images of them, Mr Universe oddly affecting me almost as much as Book and Wash in that context.
And I was so distraught and shell-shocked when I left the auditorium, that I walked into the ladies toilets instead of the gents! Managed to retreat quickly, with the comment, "hit you pretty hard, huh?" and a nervous laugh from a girl at the door.
I compare this film death to the moment when I realised Morpheus was going to die in the Sandman, that it was just a matter of time and I couldn't do anything about it. I associate it with the good doctor Frank's death in my fave film 'A Matter of Life & Death', and with Midshipman Hollom's and Calumny's in 'Master & Commander', my fave film of 2003. Then there was Fuschia in Gormenghast, and the ending of The Amber Spy Glass trilogy...
Great stories have pain as well as hope. The two cannot exist without the other.
And I began to wonder if even any of them would survive by the end.
I'm hurt, but I'm still walking. This must have been what it was like for Mal in Serenity Valley... only worse.
"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash
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Thanks Fireflygal for the spoiler. Wash and Zoe are my favorite characters. I have been awaiting this movie since the day they cancelled Firefly. Now, with this news that Wash is killed off; all of my excitement has just waned and I will not be waiting in line to see the movie now. I can't watch Wash die, knowing he won't be coming back. Maybe someday when the pain of this is healed I will watch it on DVD but I just can't watch it right now..
Rodash
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