Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out
POSTED BY: fireflygal
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 18:37
VIEWED: 62576
PAGE 11 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by nakedandarticulate:
he start-----If you read my first post I was civil.The main point was I was just asking a question.If you read my profile, you know that I love this universe.The anger posts,were immature but I mean seriously how can you take my anger serious when my screen name is NAKEDANDARTICULATE. (insert laugh track here) Bottom line, I just want this film to do well, not just for Joss, or for sequels, or for the actors, or even for the other universe he created-buffster. I want it to do well,because everyone here is a FAN of this universe.It touched something within all of us.It may hurt(I cried at the funeral scene,and when Tara died and when Wes died,and especially when Anya didn't understand death) but it also brought us joy and passion ,wonder and above all hope.So that is all, sorry
"It's about how much freedom you can take away from somebody before they either fold or fight," Whedon says. "It's about the right to be wrong and the nature of human beings, that they need the freedom to be wrong. That they cannot be made to be better or perfect."--Joss Whedon on Serenity
As mom's always say "I don't care who started it"
It would be shiny if we can all be nice from here on out. FlyingTams have agreed, to be peaceable, so I think we all can put our Vera's away and play nice together, cause we are Browncoats together! We all want sequels, we all want our BDH's to be a success. We all just didn't like certain things about the moview but that's ok.I aim to misbehave!
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Again,I was kidding with the first part.
"It's about how much freedom you can take away from somebody before they either fold or fight," Whedon says. "It's about the right to be wrong and the nature of human beings, that they need the freedom to be wrong. That they cannot be made to be better or perfect."--Joss Whedon on Serenity
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Quote:
Originally posted by nakedandarticulate:
Again,I was kidding with the first part.
Me too, I just couldn't stop myself...
I aim to misbehave!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Some love/hate thing you have going for Joss there.
Yeah, guess that's what you'd call it. Can't stand Those Other Shows; the fact he did 'em in my mind is reason to be suspicious of Firefly. Still hard for me to believe it's the same guy. Either it's a blind squirrel finally finding a nut, or I Just Never Got his other stuff. Just as likely the latter, but it doesn't matter: if I don't like it, that settles it.
---------------------------
I didn't do it.
You can't prove it.
The sheep are lying.
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This is sort of a re-post and mix of posts of mine from the "Joss you took the sky from me" post on the Browncoat board over at 'versal.
I'm not all up to date on this thread. I'm not going to read every single message. I'm too damn lazy for that.
I can see why people would be pissed about Book and Wash. I knew Book wouldn't make it out of the movie when I read an interview with Ron Glass who claimed he was just getting too old to do this anymore. Wash? Alan Tudyk is a hot commodity after Dodgeball and I, Robot, so after the fact I wasn't too surprised there either.
I was upset when they killed off Book, not cos he was dead, but because I wouldn't get the rest of his story. I don't know what he whispered to Mal, and I desperately want to know. I understand that his death served as Mal's catalyst to do what had to be done. This is important for the story. Book turns a switch in Mal and without him who knows how things would have ended.
Wash. Let me sidetrack here, I love Joss Whedon's shows because of one simple fact: just as in real life, no one is ever really safe. No one is safe. Buffy died 3 times, Joss killed off Tara and Fred, 2 of his most beloved female characters. Why? because it lead to character development. People need catalysts in their lives. These things are usually big like death. Wash's death was not in vain. Zoe's reaction to it? What did anyone expect? She's a soldier, there will be time for mourning when the fighting is done. I hope there is a sequel cos I know Joss has Zoe's breakdown planned, this was what she needed to lose her faith and find her path. Think about the possibilities for Zoe's character to grow, what if she's pregnant? What if she goes AWOL? What if she just can't handle it? Wash is one of my favorite characters, but I understand Joss' motivation. Part of which was killing Wash to give Zoe emotional development and to make her character more than just this stoic warrior.
Life is fragile, it is so fragile it can disappear in an instant. I know there aren't a lot of Buffy or Angel fans on this thread (that I could gather) but in the final episode of Buffy Joss kills off Anya.. Anya was one of my favorite characters. Her death? Happened in the blink of an eye, I have friends who missed it 2 or even 3 times when watching the finale. There was no fan fare, no slow motion, just a slice and fall and that was it. She was dead. It happened so quick. People threw a fit afterwards saying that she deserved more than that. Why? Because she was a character that you were invested in? Because you want everything to work out and for everyone to have a happy ending? If there is one thing Joss believes in, there are few happy endings, and people's lives rarely are perfect.
Lets look at Buffy & Angel: Characters that died or left: Jenny Calendar (dead) Anya (left & deceased), Tara (dead), Jesse (dead), Oz (permanent leaving), Buffy (at one point left & was dead 3 times), Willow (at one point left) Giles (at one point went back to England), Mrs. Summers (dead), Faith (coma, then left, prison), Angel (sent to hell, then left for own show), Cordelia (left for LA, coma), Wesley (left Buffy, left Angel), Fred (turned into Illyria/dead), Darla (dead, killed by Angel, then staked herself), Spike (dead, exploded), Lindsey (left, dead), Jonathon (dead), Warren (dead), Doyle (dead), Drusilla (left)
That is 21 characters that disappeared from the Buffyverse over 12 seasons (both shows together). That is more than one character per year. Lots of characters die or leave and shows go on.
Now which ones came back (either from the dead or from sabattical, flashbacks, dreams, ect...): Buffy, Giles, Willow, Anya, Oz, Faith, Angel, Cordelia, Wesley, Darla (came back 2 different times after death), Spike, Jonathon, Warren, Drusilla, Jenny Calendar
15 Characters that returned. While in Joss's world you may be dead, you are never done and gone.
**Also I thought I should mention, I recently saw an interview with Joss on Australian TV (I think) and he mentioned that should there be a seque
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Quote:I'd say it's probably likely. It's also probably likely that he may change his mind on one or two of them. This is Joss we're talking about. Just when you think you know what he's doing, he flips it all over on you.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I heard 1 Browncoat say that Joss has the idea for all of them to die, before it's all over. Except maybe River. Who knows?
Quote:We tried in Minneapolis to get him to tell us who Book was and he refused. One way or the other - barring resurrection, of course - we'll find out who he was and what he was up to. Ron Glass mentioned that he and Joss talked about flashback sequences and the like.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'll say this. For the story to work, it makes sense that Book died the way he did. Could it have been done differently ? Hell yes! But I have a feeling this death was a mutual idea. Or I DID think that, before I heard the Ron Glass interview on the Serenity podcast. Now, I don't know.
Quote:Believe it or not, according to the movie magazine, it was Alan Tudyk's idea. He even approves of how it went down because it adds more realism to the character. It also alludes to the idea that there aren't always happy endings in this version of the 'verse, plus it will give Zoe that much more character development down the road.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
As for Wash? It seemed as senseless as it was sudden. I had the oppotunity to watch that scene twice, and I still don't see why it had to happen that way. That it HAD to happen, might be less of a story/plot issue and more of a Alan Tudyk / Hollywood actor issue. Contracts and future working availabilty might have forced Joss to do somethin drastic. Again, I have no clue, just my $ 0.02 worth.
Always trust the Joss. That's all I can say.
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Double post!
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Right on BlackEyedGirl! Took the words right out of my mouth. Honestly I excepted somebody to die, and let’s face it, if you’re a serious Joss fan; everybody knows that just when you think things are safe, when the happy ending is coming, Joss robs you of that. It so that you do exactly what your doing now.
A writer writes to make people feel emotions, that’s why we love this show, is because the emotions Joss fills us with. We cry at the end of "The Message," Early gives us the creeps, and as we watch Serenity be torn to pieces, we cringe and only exhale when it stops. I almost cried at Wash and Book's deaths (I DON'T CRY, the only movie that can make me weepy is Big Fish at the very end), I loved them both, but their deaths mean so much more. Mal is a different person now, River is the pilot (who knew she could fly), SIMON AND KAYLEE FINALY GOT TOGETHER (which I've been waiting for since the show got started), Inara is back (and I saw the making of the love story between her and Mal getting started).
The happy ending is there folks, Joss gave us what we wanted, and we said we'd follow him and trust our BDM in his hands. Well it's still in his hands, so let’s go be Box Office maniacs and get two more movies so we can see the rest of this crazy vision of the future.
KAYLEE: So how come you don't care where you're going?
BOOK: 'Cause how you get there is the worthier part.
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The thing that bothers me about this thread, ffg, is your continued insistence on an explanation, when several have already been provided. If they aren't sufficient, I'm sorry, but the reasons it happened are all here.
And, BlackEyedGirl, you said it *perfectly*.
Serenity is better than I even thought it could be. I have no complaints at all. I'm sorry for those who feel differently, but for me...man. It didn't just make me "feel sad", or be depressed, it made me feel every punch, every explosion, every bounce of Serenity as she crashed, every gunshot, every slice or stab, as if it were happening to me. I wasn't watching the movie, I was inside it. I've never in my life experienced ANY form of entertainment that engrossing and affecting. The lack of a happy ending is a small price to pay indeed.
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Question: You don't need help. Im surprised noone has brought this up unless I've missed talk on the boards, but why Wash? As a character, you know, why-why Wash? I mean, I just shrunk back into my seat and asked "Why?!" I mean --
JOSS: - I think you just answered your own question. Not for shock value, but for emotional value. What it would do to you emotionally. And for River and Mal, who are basically the crux of the film, still to be able to, you know call this a happy ending, there was no way I could just let people walk away. It wouldn't be right for the movie and quite frankly-- its me guys. But Wash is not only someone everybody loves, but he is somebody you wouldn't think of as a fighter, youre not looking for him to go. So when he does, it means at that point, everybody is on the table. And thats what makes it exciting
http://www.serenitymovie.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=766
Freedom - Peace - Serenity
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