Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out
POSTED BY: fireflygal
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 18:37
VIEWED: 62576
PAGE 12 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
The thing that bothers me about this thread, ffg, is your continued insistence on an explanation, when several have already been provided. If they aren't sufficient, I'm sorry, but the reasons it happened are all here.
Actually Thrawn I keep repeating my self for the new people that post and don't feel like catching up on everything. So I repeat my original statement basically so they know where I was coming from. By the way, I have a partial answer. I have many other questions that surround the why that have not been answered. I didn't mean my question to sound so simple as to just "why". There are several "why" tangents I would like to examine but it was easier just to say "why" in the threads
So now you understand I don't have my whole answer and perhaps you won't mind if I continue to ask "why". Perhaps I can change it to "why + tangents" for you. 
Yeah, I'm a sarcastic Browncoat sometimes.I aim to misbehave!
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Hi, new here. Well, on the board, but a long time, Buffy/Angel/Firefly fan. So, obviously, I am a Joss Whedon follower. Anyways... I was looking through buffy.nu and I came through this...
Questioner:: There’s been alot of speculation as to the reasons for Alan’s ’lack of sequel opportunity’ shall we say? Are you able to confirm or deny or speculate?
JOSS: I can do all of those things. I have always... *hated* Alan. He’s just not funny. Im looking for funny and he’s just not there for me. No, he is... the character if Wash - as some of you may have noticed - a corpse, but that is not because he is not going to be in the sequel. In fact, if there were a sequel I can say, without hesitation that he infact would be in it. And not in a cheesy twin brother way. I can’t stress that enough.
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Quote:
Originally posted by fireflygal:Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
The thing that bothers me about this thread, ffg, is your continued insistence on an explanation, when several have already been provided. If they aren't sufficient, I'm sorry, but the reasons it happened are all here.
Actually Thrawn I keep repeating my self for the new people that post and don't feel like catching up on everything. So I repeat my original statement basically so they know where I was coming from. By the way, I have a partial answer. I have many other questions that surround the why that have not been answered. I didn't mean my question to sound so simple as to just "why". There are several "why" tangents I would like to examine but it was easier just to say "why" in the threads
I aim to misbehave!
For future reference, ffg, I think the problem is that this whole thread comes off as a game of "Whack-a-mole", which, frankly, gets really old.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.
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I'm terribly disappointed with Serenity. I looked forward to it since I first heard it was coming out, but I stumbled upon the spoiler that two main characters were going to die, and out of curiosity I just had to find out who, and I did. Now I'm not going to see the movie in the theater. This was a mistake. As far as I'm concerned Firefly died when the series was canceled. People have said that we owe Joss. Nope, not true at all. He owes us. Fans were the ones who kept it going for the time it did and who caused a movie to happen, sure Joss wrote the story, etc., but that wouldn't have happened if fans hadn't shown support and now to kill characters. Oh heck no. Some have said it adds to realism. I don't agree - um - the Earth is gone, they live on a space ship, not so real right? No. You DON'T need to kill off a character. That's cliche is series and movies now. Who doesn't do it? If I wanted realism I'd step out the door. I hope that there are no more movies after this one. What'd be the point. I don't support that, or this movie. It's not Firefly. Remember Firefly. Yeah - there were shootings and close calls, but it was fun and our people got away in the end. All in all I think Joss was wrong. And he needs to realize that. If people support this then it's only going to make Hollywood think that y'know it's alright to kill off the good guys. I wouldn't accept this movie. You're just saying that well, okay, you didn't do it right, but I'll take it. I'm not going to. Unless they do it right (which I know won't happen) Firefly died for me when it was cancelled.
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I'd like to agree with FireflyGirl, Stroess, Wibbled, PizmoBeach, FlyingTams and CommanderAdama on this one (even if that puts me in the minority--heaven knows I'm used to it by now). I got spoiled by accident, and knowing that Wash is going to die just about broke my heart. In fact, I'm highly tempted to skip the movie now (but I won't.)
It's true that killing off characters does up the excitement level of a film. It's true that in such a dangerous and deadly situation, it may be ridiculous to expect everyone to survive. It's true that Joss tends to disrupt happy relationships, and almost no-one is safe on his shows. It's all true, and I guess I'm glad to see so many people are pleased by his work.
All these truisms just don't work for me, though. 
How many times in all the episodes of Firefly did crew members get shot, stabbed, sliced, beaten mercilessly, electroshocked, asphyxiated, put into chemically-induced comas, punched, and generally mistreated-- and survive? So, it's not so unusual that some of us thought the people we've come to know and love would all make it.
I also don't buy the notion that the only way to truly grab an audience is to kill someone. Firefly grabbed us all without killing main characters. Even though I kinda knew Mal would live through "Out Of Gas," I was still riveted to the screen, wondering what would happen next, and how he'd get out of it. Sure, death raises the stakes; but I feel Joss and Crew are so incredibly talented writers, they could have made the plot exciting in other, non-lethal ways.
And yes, Joss has a history of killing off some very beloved characters. I'm a devotee of both Buffy and Angel, so I'm quite familiar with the list. But... if I'm going to lose a character who's become dear to my heart, I'd like it at least to be something meaningful. Tara died, but it was for a purpose-- to move the story along so Willow would become the Big Bad. Anya died fighting to protect others and destroy evil. So did Doyle, Cordy, Wesley and Gunn-- all of them died making a difference. Maybe that's why I'm not so upset about Book's passing-- he went out fighting. But for Wash to die out of sheer bad luck strikes me as empty, meaningless, and unfulfilling. It's something lesser script-writers have used so much it's become a cliche-- something to jerk the audience around. I really did expect better than such manipulation from Joss and Serenity.
And yes, death is realistic. But don't we watch TV and movies to get away from reality for a while? We've all known pain, suffering and loss in the Real World. Real happy endings don't exist. Life's not like that. Well, I don't watch movies to see life in all its tragedy. I see movies to release tension, not cause it. I see movies to be happy, not heartbroken. I'm a fairly new Browncoat, but I've been looking forward to Sept. 30th with great anticipation... and now, I'm just not. Is it too much to have a happy ending, just once?
The argument's been made that "they're Joss's toys and he can break them if he wants to." And he's got a history of playing rough. He doesn't owe us anything, we all should have known better... Yes, yes, yes, yada yada yada. But when a series shifts so quickly from playful Firefly to deadly Serenity, it's hard not to question, or feel some sort of disappointment-- that "rug has been pulled out from under us" feeling, to borrow that clever phrase 
. It's not so much a criticism of Joss, as it is our deep involvement with and love for the characters. If we didn't love Book and Wash so much-- if Joss & Co. hadn't done such a magnificent job creating them in the first place-- then none of us would be so upset. So we question, and complain, and cry, and demand answers that will somehow lessen the pain. Joss put in those deaths to get a reaction, after all... 
And even though I'm upset, I'm still planning on seeing the movie at least once (and if I can stand the heartbreak, more than once) just
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Quote:
Believe it or not, according to the movie magazine, it was Alan Tudyk's idea. He even approves of how it went down because it adds more realism to the character. It also alludes to the idea that there aren't always happy endings in this version of the 'verse, plus it will give Zoe that much more character development down the road.
Well, then it seems I was 1/2 right. Wash saves everyone and as a result, dies a quick and horrific death.
That Alan was to be written out seems to be an Hollywood/actor thing. That Alan approved the idea or even came up with it, isn't so much a big deal for me. But to the idea that there aren't always happy endings....how about there being ANY happy ones? Sheesh! ( Grappling scene between unnamed doctors and mechanics, not withstanding )
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:Quote:
Originally posted by fireflygal:Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
The thing that bothers me about this thread, ffg, is your continued insistence on an explanation, when several have already been provided. If they aren't sufficient, I'm sorry, but the reasons it happened are all here.
Actually Thrawn I keep repeating my self for the new people that post and don't feel like catching up on everything. So I repeat my original statement basically so they know where I was coming from. By the way, I have a partial answer. I have many other questions that surround the why that have not been answered. I didn't mean my question to sound so simple as to just "why". There are several "why" tangents I would like to examine but it was easier just to say "why" in the threads
I aim to misbehave!
For future reference, ffg, I think the problem is that this whole thread comes off as a game of "Whack-a-mole", which, frankly, gets really old.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.
Doesn't seem like a game of whack-a-mole to the other fans that are still pouring their hearts out over Joss's decisions. There's no one twisting your arm to read this post but I'm still enjoying the heck out of it, especially since more folks have appeared that also believe Joss took the sky from us.
I aim to misbehave!
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For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
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Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderAdama:
I'm terribly disappointed with Serenity. I looked forward to it since I first heard it was coming out, but I stumbled upon the spoiler that two main characters were going to die, and out of curiosity I just had to find out who, and I did. Now I'm not going to see the movie in the theater. This was a mistake. As far as I'm concerned Firefly died when the series was canceled. People have said that we owe Joss. Nope, not true at all. He owes us. Fans were the ones who kept it going for the time it did and who caused a movie to happen, sure Joss wrote the story, etc., but that wouldn't have happened if fans hadn't shown support and now to kill characters. Oh heck no. Some have said it adds to realism. I don't agree - um - the Earth is gone, they live on a space ship, not so real right? No. You DON'T need to kill off a character. That's cliche is series and movies now. Who doesn't do it? If I wanted realism I'd step out the door. I hope that there are no more movies after this one. What'd be the point. I don't support that, or this movie. It's not Firefly. Remember Firefly. Yeah - there were shootings and close calls, but it was fun and our people got away in the end. All in all I think Joss was wrong. And he needs to realize that. If people support this then it's only going to make Hollywood think that y'know it's alright to kill off the good guys. I wouldn't accept this movie. You're just saying that well, okay, you didn't do it right, but I'll take it. I'm not going to. Unless they do it right (which I know won't happen) Firefly died for me when it was cancelled.
I agree, he didn't have to kill off characters to make it real, but I believe you may enjoy the movie anyway. I'm not happy but, what's done is done and I still think maybe we should support the actors and Universal. It really is still Firefly, CommanderAdama. I'm sure Joss realizes that many fans are unhappy, if we all support Serenity maybe he'll somehow make amends in the next one. If you hadn't read about the spoilers, you'd have gone to see it at least once, right?
I aim to misbehave!
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For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
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Quote:
Originally posted by SweetestHat:
I'd like to agree with FireflyGirl, Stroess, Wibbled, PizmoBeach, FlyingTams and CommanderAdama on this one (even if that puts me in the minority--heaven knows I'm used to it by now). I got spoiled by accident, and knowing that Wash is going to die just about broke my heart. In fact, I'm highly tempted to skip the movie now (but I won't.)
It's true that killing off characters does up the excitement level of a film. It's true that in such a dangerous and deadly situation, it may be ridiculous to expect everyone to survive. It's true that Joss tends to disrupt happy relationships, and almost no-one is safe on his shows. It's all true, and I guess I'm glad to see so many people are pleased by his work.
All these truisms just don't work for me, though.
How many times in all the episodes of Firefly did crew members get shot, stabbed, sliced, beaten mercilessly, electroshocked, asphyxiated, put into chemically-induced comas, punched, and generally mistreated-- and survive? So, it's not so unusual that some of us thought the people we've come to know and love would all make it.
I also don't buy the notion that the only way to truly grab an audience is to kill someone. Firefly grabbed us all without killing main characters. Even though I kinda knew Mal would live through "Out Of Gas," I was still riveted to the screen, wondering what would happen next, and how he'd get out of it. Sure, death raises the stakes; but I feel Joss and Crew are so incredibly talented writers, they could have made the plot exciting in other, non-lethal ways.
And yes, Joss has a history of killing off some very beloved characters. I'm a devotee of both Buffy and Angel, so I'm quite familiar with the list. But... if I'm going to lose a character who's become dear to my heart, I'd like it at least to be something meaningful. Tara died, but it was for a purpose-- to move the story along so Willow would become the Big Bad. Anya died fighting to protect others and destroy evil. So did Doyle, Cordy, Wesley and Gunn-- all of them died making a difference. Maybe that's why I'm not so upset about Book's passing-- he went out fighting. But for Wash to die out of sheer bad luck strikes me as empty, meaningless, and unfulfilling. It's something lesser script-writers have used so much it's become a cliche-- something to jerk the audience around. I really did expect better than such manipulation from Joss and Serenity.
And yes, death is realistic. But don't we watch TV and movies to get away from reality for a while? We've all known pain, suffering and loss in the Real World. Real happy endings don't exist. Life's not like that. Well, I don't watch movies to see life in all its tragedy. I see movies to release tension, not cause it. I see movies to be happy, not heartbroken. I'm a fairly new Browncoat, but I've been looking forward to Sept. 30th with great anticipation... and now, I'm just not. Is it too much to have a happy ending, just once?
The argument's been made that "they're Joss's toys and he can break them if he wants to." And he's got a history of playing rough. He doesn't owe us anything, we all should have known better... Yes, yes, yes, yada yada yada. But when a series shifts so quickly from playful Firefly to deadly Serenity, it's hard not to question, or feel some sort of disappointment-- that "rug has been pulled out from under us" feeling, to borrow that clever phrase
And even though I'm upset, I'm still planning on seeing the movie at least once (and if I cNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by fireflygal:Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:Quote:
Originally posted by fireflygal:Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
......
......
For future reference, ffg, I think the problem is that this whole thread comes off as a game of "Whack-a-mole", which, frankly, gets really old.
Doesn't seem like a game of whack-a-mole to the other fans that are still pouring their hearts out over Joss's decisions. There's no one twisting your arm to read this post but I'm still enjoying the heck out of it, especially since more folks have appeared that also believe Joss took the sky from us.
I aim to misbehave!
Firefly items:
For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
e-mail FireflyGal1@hotmail.com
www.cafepress.com/fillies
www.cafepress.com/fireflyflan
*WHACK!*
(*rubs head and crawls back under ground*)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.
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