Okay, it was a mistake to let go of Season 4, but now on to 5!
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, September 19, 2005 04:42
VIEWED: 15224
PAGE 6 of 8
Yep, they sure did. I was watching S5 not that long ago and I realized that Riley's vamp "visitations" was probably meant to be a metaphor for Riley screwing around on Buffy. I guess I'm a bit slow on the uptake (unless I'm wrong about the metaphor thing). But I still didn't buy his motivation for engaging in that specific activity. Nor would I buy it if Riley had really screwed around on Buffy.
When Riley tells Xander she doesn't love him, it's heartbreaking but true. So how do they (meaning the writers) deal with it?...I have more to say about this but can't until you've seen "Into the Woods".
About the 730 thing. It makes sense if they were counting down to the end of season 5. But why would they do that? Seems like they would want to countdown to Dawn's arrival.
I think Joss knew by the time they were shooting the season finale to 5 that they were going to be picked up by UPN.
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Does all this mean S5 was supposed to be the end?
This has been answered already, but I’d like to elaborate.
In the commentaries & extras, Whedon says that he initially toyed with the idea of ending the show in its fifth season, but long before he got there changed his mind (however, a popular myth still exists that Joss was “forced” into making the last two seasons and that “The Gift” is the *true* series finale). And they weren’t technically canceled; a financial dispute arose between the WB and 20th Century Fox. Every time the show was renewed for another season, 20th asked for a budget increase (I assume it's standard practice). When they were negotiating for the sixth season, the WB refused to go any further. A huge argument raged between the two, with Joss caught in the middle (it actually went on during the 100th Ep party). The future of the show was endangered--but not officially killed--even as they filmed “The Gift.” Then UPN swept in, offered 20th a substantially better deal (and perhaps more creative freedom for Joss, I’m a bit fuzzy on that), and enticed the show away from the WB. So the WB’s stupidity was the root of the cause, but they never quite went so far as to cancel the show (they just didn’t want to fund it).
“The Gift” is a very important episode and could’ve ended the series, but I feel that the message it sends is just a bit off from the show’s core message and that “Chosen” is the much better series finale. You’ll have to decide for yourself when (if?) you get there.
Btw, I really recommend you watch Joss’ commentaries. They're always fun and enlightening, though some are better than others. There are a number of good ones on the Fourth Season--which you don’t presently have. But the commentary for “Innocence” is really good, as is the one for “Welcome to the Hellmouth”/”The Harvest,” and the two on Season Five, for “The Body” and “The Gift” are truly great. The one for “The Body” really explains the episode in a way that answered some questions and problems I had with it. So, in summary--commentaries good.
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Much obliged by the detailed response. I feel I am now somewhat up to speed on the whole question of the direction Joss was taking ( and I'd better ready a whole lot of my comics for liquification, I've been hooked this far...)
Bloody well in deep Chrisisall
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Quote:Yeah, that rang true. Riley was emotionally making a small break w/Buffy as of that moment.
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
When Riley tells Xander she doesn't love him, it's heartbreaking but true.
Chrisisall*snif*
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Quote:All right, I saw it. And I have to say, for a character to be written out because he's served his purpose as the rebound guy, they did it rather well. It went a lot smoother than I imagined. It made me teary, even.
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
I have more to say about this but can't until you've seen "Into the Woods".
Buffy's is a tale of woe, and she has no room in her world for normalcy.
Know what? I'm gonna have to stop saying 'Spike bugs me'.
Chrisisall
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You really thought it was good?
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Just rewatched the scene to make sure I was remembering it correctly. I realize when couples have a big fight they quite often dance around the real point. So Buffy's mad at Riley for running around behind her back and getting bitten, which Riley apologizes for about 19 times.
Riley never tells Buffy the real reason for all this, and isn't Dracula, or Angel or wanting to feel what Buffy felt, blah, blah, blah...I mean all that relates to why Riley thinks Buffy finds him inadequate that inadequacy is why Buffy isn't really in love with him but Riley never says that crap is just symptomactic of the truth which is Buffy does not love him.
Now when Riley does finally get around to saying that the vamps made him feel needed, she's starting to get the hint that Riley feels she doesn't make him feel needed.
And then she says "Well, who's fault is that?"
And she goes on about how "this is it, this is me, this is package, and if it's not good enough, we have a problem."
So when Buffy says "Well who's fault is that?" Riley doesn't say: "It's your fault!" And he lets Buffy go on and Riley never corrects Buffy that it isn't that she's the Slayer and all the baggage that brings, it that's he wants to know if she is love with him. And he never confronts her with that. Instead of responding to what Buffy does say, he says "I'm leaving tonight" and that takes us down another road.
I just found it very frustrating that Riley never said "Are you in love with me or not?" And see Buffy deal with that with Riley standing right there in front of her.
So I guess after her talk with Xander, Buffy realizes she IS in love with Riley (so I guess that means he's not the rebound guy) and then she runs to stop the helicopter, and so on.
So that's all I was gonna say about that.
But wasn't it cool when Buffy dusted all those Riley-sucking vamps? Especially that three-fer?
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Quote:Not that it was good, but for what it was (an excuse to lose a character) it wasn't too bad. The writing was good given the lousy job they were given to accomplish. And I got sucked into it douche that I am.
Originally posted by Grounded:
You really thought it was good?
Here, pull my heart-string Chrisisall
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Quote:That was the writers having it both ways with us; she doesn't love him/ he goes/ wait, she DOES! *cue the tears*
Originally posted by batmarlowe:
So I guess after her talk with Xander, Buffy realizes she IS in love with Riley (so I guess that means he's not the rebound guy) and then she runs to stop the helicopter, and so on.
Like I said, we, the audience, were played. And many of us even kind of liked it.
And that fight was great, it lived up to what I expected in the first few seconds.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Know what? I'm gonna have to stop saying 'Spike bugs me'.
Yes, give in to the Dark Side! There is no other way.
P.S.: That race to the helicopter is heartwrenching, and I was one of those who didn't even like Riley.
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