Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out
POSTED BY: fireflygal
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 18:37
VIEWED: 62576
PAGE 4 of 23
Sorry but I believe he owes the fans a "why" because we all fought for the show and ALL the characters. How many times have we heard Joss and the cast say the fans were partly responsible for bringing Serenity to reality. If so, I certainly didn't do it to have characters killed off. Yes, Joss writes dark, but then he shouldn't say he writes what people love (his own words). I know many Browncoats that did NOT love what he did. So I still ask why. I do believe he does owe the unhappy fans that answer. Even if you believe he owes us nothing, it's still a question that should be asked in an interview because it is a viable interview question.
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Quote:
Originally posted by embers:Quote:Hear Hear!!
Originally posted by Jacqui:Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
He told his story, the best and most intense and most realistic way he could. He owes us nothing more.
anyone who has experienced a loved one's death in RL
(as we know Joss has)
knows how intense and deep that loss is,
and personally I think Joss gave us a taste of that shock and pain,
and it adds depth and power to his film
personally I'll be thrilled to see my beloved characters again in flashbacks,
or in prequels
or in any other form Joss thinks up....
If you don't like Joss Whedon's story telling then you can always go for fan fic,
that is what that is for...right?
Because I've experienced death in real life is exactly why I don't want it in fiction. Personally couldn't care less that Padme died in Star Wars but we all know Firefly was in our hearts. That's why I wanted my fiction different from reality because Joss COULD have written an awesome story without the characters dying. Wounded I say, wounded would have worked!
As for fan fic, sure I can, then everyone will say, hey don't you know Wash and Book are dead?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stillshiny:
came across this today. Just some bits & pieces from the Sydney Q & A but may help shed some light.
Q> How did you decide who to kill?
A> “My Dungeon Master’s 20-sided dice” (uproarious laughter).
‘At first, I wasn’t going to kill anyone...” but he explained that if no-one got hurt then the story wouldn’t ring true for the newcomers. He also noted “You have resitrictions about who you can kill and still call it a happy ending.” He apparently tried different scenarios and reminisced that in a draft for Alien IV, he had a death for one of the characters in every act and then living in the finale. “I can’t worry about what I need or worry about a sequel...” he had to make this film the best it could possibly be.
Wash’s death “gave Zoe what she hadn’t had for the rest of the movie...” ie. an emotional arc and more than her just being the strong, dependable... (can’t remember the adjectives...) She was given shock and disbelief before “sublimating it for later when she can take it out on some Reavers.” “Everyone who isn’t Ron and Alan wins.”
He (Joss) noted that Alan works the most and was the first to get work after the series ended. Joss at this point began to get nervous that the cast was moving on and that his movie wasn’t going to happen.
Asked about whether we would ever find out about Book’s past. “Once more I mention the sequel...”
"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion
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Serenity is coming. 9/30/05
Thanks StillShiny.
I seem to have the why now and I feel betrayed even more because he killed the characters for the newbies! So THEY'D have a better movie. What about the fans from day 1? Guess we don't seem to count. Sure, he can do whatever he wants with his characters but I don't have to like it and I still don't believe it was a better movie because they died. Yes, it got the gut punch reaction he wanted. It was just great having to sit through 2 more showings with friends, knowing they'd be gut punched too and I couldn't do anything about it. Never said a word to anyone, kept it all in, just said the movie was an "E" ticket ride and it was. I hope the "newbies" appreciate what Joss did for them.I aim to misbehave!
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Quote:
Originally posted by WickedLester:
I haven't seen it yet, but i read the spoilers and i trust joss
Got a Smoke?
How can I trust someone that I feel betrayed by? Not that Joss gives a rats pe-gu what I think but I'm certainly gonna air it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rhonis:
I'm holding to the notion that maybe, just maybe, all of this is to give us a great twist -- the final cut will have a healthy Wash and Book in the end.
As a precedent... remember when Empire Strikes Back was released, even the actors were surprised to learn Vader was Luke's father... Only a few select people know about this.
Point is, Joss could be having a great joke on us. Remember Mal's sense of humor towards Kaylee's death? Like that.
I hope I can simply say Joss, you're a bad man. :)
I'm hoping your right!
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Sometimes I feel like I am the only one in the 'Verse who understands that part of what makes Joss and his writings what they are is the fact that, like in real life, there are not always happy endings and things often take unexpected turns.
I accept this in his work, and by way of being a fan, I also expect it.
Did I hate that Wash died? Yes. Was I angry that he died? Yes. Am I calling for Joss's head or for him to answer to me for what is, in reality, his world and his creation? No.
Will I go on and read/watch/listen to anything he does? Yes, I will, and I will do so with the expectation that good guys always aren't, bad guys sometimes have a damn good reason, and that life isn't fair and good people die for no reason. If I didn't at least accept this, I couldn't be a fan.
I will watch. I will get angry. Then I will blame the only person I can, me. And then I will laugh for setting myself up for it and look forward to the next time I will get angry.
note: I will also watch for the stories, the fun, the action, the connections, and the incredibly hot women who can kick pee goo!
Man...that's twice something has got me on my soapbox this week...a world record. LOL!
BWAH!
TCM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one in the 'Verse who understands that part of what makes Joss and his writings what they are is the fact that, like in real life, there are not always happy endings and things often take unexpected turns.
I accept this in his work, and by way of being a fan, I also expect it.
Did I hate that Wash died? Yes. Was I angry that he died? Yes. Am I calling for Joss's head or for him to answer to me for what is, in reality, his world and his creation? No.
Will I go on and read/watch/listen to anything he does? Yes, I will, and I will do so with the expectation that good guys always aren't, bad guys sometimes have a damn good reason, and that life isn't fair and good people die for no reason. If I didn't at least accept this, I couldn't be a fan.
I will watch. I will get angry. Then I will blame the only person I can, me. And then I will laugh for setting myself up for it and look forward to the next time I will get angry.
note: I will also watch for the stories, the fun, the action, the connections, and the incredibly hot women who can kick pee goo!
Man...that's twice something has got me on my soapbox this week...a world record. LOL!
BWAH!
TCM
Great soapbox 10th CM, glad I incited you to step on up.
And I basically agree with most of what you said EXCEPT that I can be a fan AND question what happens. I won't blindly accept what Joss writes because he's Joss. I never liked Buffy or Angel. I did, however, LOVE Firefly (obviously) which is why I'm in this forum in the first place. I may be on the losing side of this post, still not convinced it's the wrong one!
If anyone is interested, check out the article I wrote PURPOSELY to promote Done the Impossible AND Serenity. The site I write for, however, is NOT sci-fi oriented, so I had to give it a science fact twist to even get it considered. It contains no Joss bashing, by the way.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=9b95f5b8-74b8-42fa-a
e98-39963abc7512&
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What TenthCrewMember wrote... in it's entirety.
Seriously? We're talking about a fictional world of fictional characters made up by one man. He can do what he likes with them... as long as he shares it with us.
Yes. Wash's death was upsetting. But it happened.
Yes. All the fans helped get Serenity off the ground and helped Firefly stay on its feet. But why? Why did they do that? So JOSS could tell the stories HE wanted to.
End of discussion.
If I wanted some cheesy hollywood hack formula movie where even the GORRAM little dog lives, I'll watch Volcano.
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Quote:
Originally posted by fireflygal:Quote:
Originally posted by Stillshiny:
came across this today. Just some bits & pieces from the Sydney Q & A but may help shed some light.
Q> How did you decide who to kill?
A> “My Dungeon Master’s 20-sided dice” (uproarious laughter).
‘At first, I wasn’t going to kill anyone...” but he explained that if no-one got hurt then the story wouldn’t ring true for the newcomers. He also noted “You have resitrictions about who you can kill and still call it a happy ending.” He apparently tried different scenarios and reminisced that in a draft for Alien IV, he had a death for one of the characters in every act and then living in the finale. “I can’t worry about what I need or worry about a sequel...” he had to make this film the best it could possibly be.
Wash’s death “gave Zoe what she hadn’t had for the rest of the movie...” ie. an emotional arc and more than her just being the strong, dependable... (can’t remember the adjectives...) She was given shock and disbelief before “sublimating it for later when she can take it out on some Reavers.” “Everyone who isn’t Ron and Alan wins.”
He (Joss) noted that Alan works the most and was the first to get work after the series ended. Joss at this point began to get nervous that the cast was moving on and that his movie wasn’t going to happen.
Asked about whether we would ever find out about Book’s past. “Once more I mention the sequel...”
"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion
Stillshiny's Shop - I'm thinkin we rose again
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728
Listen to "The Signal" www.serenityfirefly.com
Serenity is coming. 9/30/05
Thanks StillShiny.
I aim to misbehave!
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Are you truly this blind?! How many hardcore, intense fans just posted in this thread saying they supported the action? Let's see...um...MOST OF THEM. So you're saying he didn't care about US?!
Let me try this again - he told his story the best and most powerful way he could. What else do you want him to do?
Let me ask you a question, straight up. Would you rather he write to fulfill himself, or your expectations?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui:
What TenthCrewMember wrote... in it's entirety.
Seriously? We're talking about a fictional world of fictional characters made up by one man. He can do what he likes with them... as long as he shares it with us.
Yes. Wash's death was upsetting. But it happened.
Yes. All the fans helped get Serenity off the ground and helped Firefly stay on its feet. But why? Why did they do that? So JOSS could tell the stories HE wanted to.
End of discussion.
If I wanted some cheesy hollywood hack formula movie where even the GORRAM little dog lives, I'll watch Volcano.
*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"
Sorry Jacqui, end of YOUR discussion maybe. If it's a fictional world with fictional characters what do you care if I voice my opinion about them. I am ACCEPTING EVERYONE'S comments I'm not belittling them. You are free not to post here in this thread if you can't accept MY thoughts. And I will say it AGAIN. I don't like what Joss did with the characters and I'll deal but I still want to know why (which was answered but that's beside the point). Now it makes me wish I could see the script he wrote originally with all the characters living or hear the idea he had.
I aim to misbehave!
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