Major Spoiler and I'm calling Joss out

POSTED BY: fireflygal
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2005 18:37
VIEWED: 62576
PAGE 6 of 23

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I was hurt. I was mad. I was sad.

I thought everyone was going to die.

And that's why he did it. When I watched the TV show, I never thought anyone was going to die. In fact, after the near scrapes with Kaylee in the pilot, Mal and Wash at Niska's Skyplex, and Book while they were unloading cattle, I had it in my head that no one was going to die. Not ever.

So he took away Wash and Book. I wouldn't have done it. If I felt I had to do it, I'd have done it differently. But you know what? No one would ever read or watch one of my stories, wide eyed and open mouthed, and wonder if anyone was going to get out alive.

As for pleasing newbies, I hope he does please them. I hope he pleases them a lot. Because as many of us fans as there are, there aren't enough of us to bring in sequels. Not by a long shot. We need the newbies to get what we want: Sequels.

So if Joss did two things… if he made me fear for characters I'd assumed were safe, and he turned up the realism for the newbies, I'm glad. All hail the Newbies and their millions of dollars of ticket sales. We need them so much.

I am much more put out by the fact that Mal got shot in the back by the Operative to zero effect. Jayne's remarkable recovery after being impaled by a rusty metal pole is also notable. These are things that made the film less real, and worked against Joss' other moments.

But, all in all, small complaints for a good film.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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One minor disagreement AnthonyT, I believe there are enough Browncoats to cause a sequel BUT just to be on the safe side, I too want newbies to attend and become fans. I already have several friends who don't know Firefly that will be seeing the movie.

Mind you , it's hard for me to think unbiased (on the Serenity account) but when I go to new movies and like characters, it pisses me off when they die, it doesn't really make me a fan of the writer. But since I seem to be in the minority on that count anyway regarding Serenity or other movies hopefully we will get a flood of new Browncoats after the movie! I just still feel betrayed by the script and I can't change that no matter how much reason is placed before me.

I aim to misbehave!

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Originally posted by MikeyMo:

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Originally posted by fireflygal:
if YOU read his quote from the Aussie interview he originally wasn't going to kill anyone but then it wouldn't ring true for the NEWCOMERS, not the Browncoats but the NEW fans.

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Like I said in my previous post, I really don't think it would have rung true for me if no one had died. I appreciate you have a right to your opinion, but I really don't think accusations of Joss ignoring his fanbase, or tring to "get back" at Ron and Alan, have much credibility.

From this fan's perspective, at least, the deaths give the film more emotional resonance than a feel-good ending would have. They wouldn't be our BDHs if things went their way.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

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The getting back at Alan and Ron was a joke, it just caught me as funnt that they WERE the last 2 to sign on. I don't think I feel Joss IGNORED the fan base, I think it betrayed it and there's a difference in there. I know he was thinking about the Browncoats when he mentioned no one dying (in the Aussie Q & A) but when he changed his mind, well it was like a stab in the back. Sometimes it's better to be ignored, it's doesn't hurt as much (???)

I aim to misbehave!

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I don't think we got stabbed in the back. I think we got what we asked for. We wanted Joss to continue telling us stories in the Firefly verse. Joss did exactly that. It wasn't a fanfic. It was pure Joss. I went into the movie knowing that Joss might kill someone. Heck I have to go into every episode of a Joss tv show knowing that. I didn't really believe it was going to happen though. He's constantly able to dupe me into believing he'll go one way right before he goes another. I love it. It's what keeps me coming back. No matter what I think might happen...Joss is thinking of something else.

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Yeah. This.

Fireflygal, you have the right to your opinion just like anyone else, I wasn't trying to dissuade you. I'm just saying you shouldn't 1) say Joss is ignoring or being unfair to the fanbase as a whole, because he isn't, and 2) accuse him of killing off characters that he loves just as much as you (probably more than you) for cheap or illegitimate reasons. If you didn't like it, fine. Not everyone likes everything. Doesn't mean Joss failed, or that he was being unfair or intentionally mean.

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Sure sounded like you were trying to dissuade me I certainly don't believe that Joss was being intentionally mean, not at all and I'm sure he does love the characters more than any of us. His reasons, if part of it is to hook newbies, are legit all I asked is to know WHY he did it so I could try to reconcile it within myself somehow. I do believe to what I was expecting/wanted to see, he did fail. Serenity wasn't the movie I wanted to see, now before you get teetchy again...that's an ok thing because if all the other Browncoats on this post accept it and like it that's great. Joss is NOT out to please little me (duh) he's out to make money for Universal with the best movie he feels he can make AND get new fans and please the old fans. I won't NOT go see it again and again because I feel the movie failed what I wanted to see. It's still an action packed great movie, just because I want to smack Joss with a glove and challenge him to a sword fight because of what he did doesn't make me less of a fan! It just makes me a more verbal one

I aim to misbehave!

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Originally posted by sefania:
I, too, was disappointed with the deaths of Book and Wash.

Yes, they are Joss' characters are he can do whatever he gorram pleases with them, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

I can understand wanting to add realism to the film for the sake of the newbies. However, having watched Serenity with a newbie, what struck us most was that he didn't provide enough of a background for Book (especially) or Wash to fully comprehend how devastating their deaths were. And they were *devastating* to the fans.(I actually had someone tell me after the viewing that I should refrain from making any big decisions for a week or two, as it takes a while for the shock to wear off.)

Yes, it makes a sort of sense for characters to die. But if the show had not been cancelled, it would not have happened it the *next* episode. And for some fans, waiting so long for another glimpse of people we had grown to love, that is probably where expectations were at - a longer story arc, covering the ideas that would have been shown had the series continued (especially since we had already been hearing rumors of a trilogy!)

I think one of the things that upset me the most was that here we finally had a chance to interact with characters we had longed for - and didn't get the same level of interaction we had become accustomed to. It didn't feel as well-rounded and character-oriented. And that was frustrating. Yes, it was action-packed, and believe me, I love action as much as the next martial arts fan, but it wasn't as fulfilling because I *do* care about these characters.

Book's death served a purpose, and I could fathom how that decision came to be. (Hearing Ron Glass speak about his time with this cast, though, I am truly saddened that it had to happen this way.) But I was still frustrated - he appeared as a side character - not a part of the crew, as the fans knew him to be. It leaves out such a huge part of the background story and makes Book appear to be dispensable. Knowing more than was shown, I felt that Book's death *was* enough to show that not everyone is always going to make it out alright.

Which brings me to Wash...

I am distraught about Wash's death, not just because he was a great guy with a goofy sense of humor and the ability to not be in the center of the action, but also becuase of his relationship with Zoe. Here, finally, is a depiction of a healthy, mature, adult relationship - marriage on screen that isn't derogatory or whiny, featuring characters over the age of 25. I am disappointed that I will not get to see more of what they could explore together. (Albeit rumors have already started that Zoe may be pregnant, and it is more drama-filled to have Zoe raise her child without Wash.)

To be honest, Wash's death distracted me from the rest of the film. I didn't believe everyone else was going to die. I didn't believe he was dead. Zoe's simple "He's not coming" left me worlds of ideas for how Wash would make it through. It wasn't until the funeral scene before I realized the truth in her statement - he's really not coming.

Upon watching the scene at the end between Mal and River, it appears that (if I'm not mistaken) the answer to the question of "Then who's going to fly the ship?" will be River. And as much as River is the ultimate enigma in this 'verse, it was hard for me to sit silently and watch the entire focus become River. (Nothing against Summer Glau, a truly incredible actress, or against Joss' creation, as I love the skewed perspective River has.) But for me, Firefly was about nine truly unforgettable characters, interacting in a way that spoke volumes to me. And Serenity, which I was dying to see, was about River, with other characters in a supporting or even dispensable role.

The challenge for me, is that here is a movie I have been waiting for, hoping for, dying to see. I want to grab all of my friends and go on opening night and watch it and be able to bounce enthusiastically, even ecstatically, that we have our characters back and clamor for the next

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