The culpability at the state and federal levels in the New Orleans assistance debacle (cont.)
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, January 27, 2025 15:27
VIEWED: 13072
PAGE 8 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
Actually, I'm pretty sure that we AREN'T at war. As I understand it, only the U.S. Congress can declare war, and the last time it happened was WWII. Korea was a "police action", Viet Nam was lending help to indigenous folk resisting communism, and heaven only knows what to call Irag/Afghanistan/the police action on terror.
Please say thats just a joke. I mean, please say that calling a war a "police action" doesn't make it anything other than a war in anyones eyes.
Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.
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I'm not saying it's not a collosal unpleasantness, nor an even bigger tragedy.
However, until the U.S. Congress declares it so, we're not at war.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Oh I didn't think you were condoning it, I just, you know, can't believe that such a thing can occur...
Just seems a ridiculous level of burocracy that a country is able to send troops in, but its alright, we're not at war!
What, those bullets, oh no don't worry they're peace-time rounds, nothing to worry about!
Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.
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Welcome to American Bureaucracy.
Let's have the technocrats Chrisisall
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Thus, in the Korean Police Action it sounds like we arrested people, and in the Vietnam Conflict people just disagreed.
To quote General Sherman, who marched to the sea in the War of the Rebellion, "It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell."
(You may, of course, have heard that last little bit quoted before.)
My favorite reference to the phenomenon is in Mark Twain's War Prayer, perhaps his least known work. “I come from the Throne—bearing a message from Almighty God.” The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. “He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import—that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of— except he pause and think. God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two—one uttered, the other not.
Both have reached the ear of Him who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this—keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! Lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you
are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.
“You have heard your servant’s prayer—the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it—that part which the pastor—and also in your hearts—fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You have heard those words ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God.’
That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory, you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory —must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the
listening spirit of God the Father fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!
“O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle—be Thou near them! With them, in spirit, we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help
us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of the patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of their guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of
fire; help us to wring the hearts of their offending widows
with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out
roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring
Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it—
“For our sakes who adore thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
“We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him who is the Source of Love, and Who is the Ever-Faithful Refuge and Friends of all who are sore beset and seeking His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.”
(The old man paused). “Ye have prayed it; if you still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High awaits.”
* * * * *
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Quote:The near-worthless US government was not only refusing foreign aid, but actively prohibiting Americans from helping themselves and each other.
Stuff is being offered but not accepted by the near-worthless U.S. government.
Quote:
* The hospital ship, USS Bataan "equipped with six operating rooms, hundreds of hospital beds and the ability to produce 100,000 gallons of fresh water a day" was sitting in the Gulf of Mexico, unoccupied by a single person, by specific order of FEMA director Brown.
* Wal-Mart sent "three trailer trucks of water" to the stricken area but these were deliberately turned away by FEMA officials.
* FEMA workers prevented the U.S. Coast Guard, the only federal agency that effectively saved lives, from delivering 1,000 gallons of badly-needed diesel fuel to hospitals needing it to fuel their emergency generators,
* FEMA workers deliberately cut the emergency communications network in New Orleans, causing local police officials to reinstall it and post armed guards to prevent angry FEMA employees from further attempts to disconnect it.
* FEMA workers deliberately blocked badly-needed aid from other states, including offers from Chicago’s Mayor Daley, and the Governor of New Mexico, Richardson.
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=2&contentid=2730
&page=2 (In case anyone has trouble with this source, these examples were reported by more reputable sources below. I only link to this site because of the convenient summary.)
See also this blog by a N.O. resident:
http://www.getyouracton.com/blog/
Quote:
So many stories of relief efforts being turned away. Wildlife and Fisheries who had a couple hundred boats going into the lower 9th ward for the first two days, rescuing the people trapped in attics and on roofs - until they were ordered to stop....
Aid thwarted by FEMA
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05blame.htm
l
Aid refused
http://www.suntimes.com/output/hurricane/cst-nws-daley03.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/opinion/05krugman.html?oref=login
It's one thing to be incompetent and space out during a crisis. It's another thing to prevent anyone else from helping. FEMA officials responsible need to be criminally charged with mass manslaughter.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Hello, folks. Been away from the FFF for awhile, but have been reading along in this thread and wanted to share my appreciation for all of you who have supplied links, timelines, etc. to help me understand all that's happened since Katrina first threatened the Gulf Coast.
I want to add my little two cents, in response to certain parties who say that "now" is not the time to analyze our response to Katrina, and that "now" is not the appropriate moment to figure out what went wrong and who's to blame.
Excuse me but NOW is exactly a bit late.
In fact, yesterday would have been better.
We're still only midway through hurricane season.
Maybe our President's brother in Florida should give his sibling a phone call and remind W. of that fact!
During last week's sluggish response to Katrina, three other hurricanse coulda come right in behind her to finish off the entire Gulf region, and take Florida along with it.
We don't have the luxury of time. Every moment wasted in photo ops and in spinning attention away from Horsie Brown leaves us more vulnerable to the next storm. Will it take landfall of Hurricane Ophelia to get the Feds to take corrective measures?
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Quote:
Originally posted by firefloozysuzie:
During last week's sluggish response to Katrina, three other hurricanse coulda come right in behind her to finish off the entire Gulf region, and take Florida along with it.
We don't have the luxury of time. Every moment wasted in photo ops and in spinning attention away from Horsie Brown leaves us more vulnerable to the next storm. Will it take landfall of Hurricane Ophelia to get the Feds to take corrective measures?
Wow, damn hurricanes are a menace. Somebody should do something...
First of all most hurricanes are well within the capability of State and Local governments to handle. Even the big one that hit Florida last year was ably managed by JEB Bush with the support of (but not controlled by) FEMA.
This was more then a hurricane. This is best evidenced by the response in Mississippi and Alabama where State, Local, and Federal recovery is proceeding mostly on schedule and as expected given the nature of the storm. This hurricane caused severe damage to New Orleans, but by Monday afternoon everybody was happy to have dodged the bullet. Had it ended there the State, Local, and FEMA approach would have been more then sufficient and they'd be blaming Bush for something else. Instead the levees broke and on top of the hurricane we had the worst flood in American history resulting in the near complete destruction of a major American City in just a few hours time.
So I wouldn't worry about Ophelia, she'll do what she wants and North and South Carolina or maybe Florida or whoever will deal with it as they always have and despite their support for the Katrina recovery. And if they need us, Ohio will be there.
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Just read Hero's response to your worries...
If what he says is so... why do your tax dollars go into these Federal departments FEMA et all
If local and state governments are suppose to manage the problems, why have the Federal side at all... ???
That money would likely be better spent at the local and state level then...
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Wow, damn hurricanes are a menace. Somebody should do something...
First of all most hurricanes are well within the capability of State and Local governments to handle. Even the big one that hit Florida last year was ably managed by JEB Bush with the support of (but not controlled by) FEMA.
This was more then a hurricane. This is best evidenced by the response in Mississippi and Alabama where State, Local, and Federal recovery is proceeding mostly on schedule and as expected given the nature of the storm. This hurricane caused severe damage to New Orleans, but by Monday afternoon everybody was happy to have dodged the bullet. Had it ended there the State, Local, and FEMA approach would have been more then sufficient and they'd be blaming Bush for something else. Instead the levees broke and on top of the hurricane we had the worst flood in American history resulting in the near complete destruction of a major American City in just a few hours time.
So I wouldn't worry about Ophelia, she'll do what she wants and North and South Carolina or maybe Florida or whoever will deal with it as they always have and despite their support for the Katrina recovery. And if they need us, Ohio will be there.
Yes, oh Ironical One, hurricanes ARE a menace.
And you need to recheck your facts about how well Florida did last year as the population faced a string of them. Not just "The Big One" you mention. My best friend lives on the Space Coast in Florida. Why don't you ask her about how "state and local" folk were able to handle mass destruction, supposedly with only mere "support" from FEMA? I hear she's got her house pretty much repaired, almost a year later. I think it was Ivan that did the most damage, though she had some damage already from an earlier hurricane, and had a near miss only a couple weeks before that.
Last conversation I had with my friend about hurricanes she said she would never forget the misery of camping out in a half-destroyed home, freezing at night, with only partial electricity from a generator. She lived that way for a month after Ivan hit. Next hurricane warning? She's coming here to New Jersey.
At this point I'm sure she's thanking the Powers That Be that her home was decimated in a) the President's brother's state and b) during an election year.
FYI:
Weather forecasters have been predicting that this year's hurricane season will be worse than 2004.
The hurricane force from Katrina that actually struck New Orleans would be considered only Category 3 on the Saffir-Simpson scale (whereas the eyewall part that hit Mississippi had winds that qualified as Cateogory 4). Katrina had weakened before hitting land. Good thing, huh?
Like I said before, I've been away from FFF awhile, so you'll have to tell me: Are you always this casual about the suffering of other people?
And do you ever check your facts?
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