The culpability at the state and federal levels in the New Orleans assistance debacle (cont.)
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, January 27, 2025 15:27
VIEWED: 13072
PAGE 2 of 11
Link to a small, positive story (courtesy Gino)
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/112595446
5945_78?hub=topstories
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
House to house would have been impossible, but driving down streets w/announcements would have done something.
And commandeering busses and planes, etc. isn't exactly taking 'private' property, it's more like 'corporate' property, isn't it? There must be a legal loophole for that under some law, I mean they can take your home under Eminent Domain, right?
Chrisisall
I'm not sure that loudspeaker announcements would have had much more effect than several days of TV, radio, and print media, and even so, would still have allowed folks to decide not to leave. Only going in and pulling out everyone, regardless of their desires, would ensure the kind of mandatory evacuation SignyM suggests.
To do Imminent Domain legally takes quite a while. And since this has turned into more a philosophical argument than anything else, I have to wonder at your willingness to accept, and even suggest, that the government apply a "legal loophole". Isn't that the kind of thing you generally oppose? Or are there good loopholes for things you like and bad loopholes for those you don't? Looks like the beginning of a slippery slope to me.
Again, I agree that response could have been better, but to ascribe all the problems and blame to an uncaring, racist government, or the bottled water trust, is politicizing things a bit too far. A disaster of massive proportion, the poor choice of a place to build, and normal human failure to think anything is going to happen to them also had a lot to do with it.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Rue does the homework!
If paid by the hour for the research done here, Rue would have the money to run for office.
Chrisisall
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Quote:I would agree w/you there.
Originally posted by Geezer:
A disaster of massive proportion, the poor choice of a place to build, and normal human failure to think anything is going to happen to them also had a lot to do with it.
[The program, called Civilian Reserve Air Fleet, lets the government quickly put private cargo and passenger planes into service."]
From above, I guess they can already do it, to some degree.
Chrisisall
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Quote:They exist and are created and used all the time, why not use them for a good purpose if you can?
Originally posted by Geezer:
I have to wonder at your willingness to accept, and even suggest, that the government apply a "legal loophole". Isn't that the kind of thing you generally oppose? Or are there good loopholes for things you like and bad loopholes for those you don't?
Chrisisall
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What a load.
Quote:The people who stayed behind were the abysmally poor and disabled. Most walked to the Superdome and other designated areas because they didn't have a car or money to leave, and had nowhere else to go. And they didn't have the suggested several days food and water b/c they didn't plain have it. (Hard to believe, but there are people who go without food in the house for days on end.) Others stayed at home because they were old and didn't have psychological resources or physical strength. Still others stayed because they would not leave a loved one who couldn't make the trip.
I'm not sure that loudspeaker announcements would have had much more effect than several days of TV, radio, and print media, and even so, would still have allowed folks to decide not to leave. Only going in and pulling out everyone, regardless of their desires, would ensure the kind of mandatory evacuation SignyM suggests.
Quote:Maybe for you. Not for me. Thousands of people died. Now I 'get' that that has no impact for you, the same way it has no impact for Bush. So go ahead, continue your single-handed mental massage if it makes you feel good. You look real good doin' it.
To do Imminent Domain legally takes quite a while. And since this has turned into more a philosophical argument than anything else, I have to wonder at your willingness to accept, and even suggest, that the government apply a "legal loophole". Isn't that the kind of thing you generally oppose? Or are there good loopholes for things you like and bad loopholes for those you don't? Looks like the beginning of a slippery slope to me.
Quote:And the resposible parties for a bad federal response would be - the Pope? Europe? Hollywood? A federal disaster area was declared August 27th and Katrina made landfall August 29 06:30. Help didn't BEGIN to arrive until 3 days later. Only you could not see the massive fuck-up that is the federal government.
Again, I agree that response could have been better, but to ascribe all the problems and blame to an uncaring, racist government, or the bottled water trust, is politicizing things a bit too far.
Quote:Yeah, that's right. Nobody predicted. Nobody complained when Bush cut funds year after year. The Netherlands seems to be coping well despite their poor 'choice' of location. And why is that? Could it be b/c they have the political will to DO something about the risk? And Bush? Well, he gets a pass from you.
A disaster of massive proportion, the poor choice of a place to build, and normal human failure to think anything is going to happen to them also had a lot to do with it.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Geezer,
Philisophically speaking, some day you are going to be old. Really old. And disabled and dependent on the good will of others to feed you and take you to the bathroom rather than make you crap a diaper and then sit in it for hours. To give you your medicine so your heart doesn't fail, and pay for your oxygen so you don't slowly suffocate and have your brain turn to mush a little more every day. And you won't be quite so slick anymore.
And as far as I can tell, you're way ahead of me on that score.
So I hope that you get to enjoy the kind of care Bush and his cronies have planned for you. And experience what it's like to one of powerless disposable people you look down on.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Geezer - If you would actually read what I wrote I said- "To make mandatory evacuation POSSIBLE" No, you can't drag unwilling people out of their homes. But there were MANY people who had no means to get out of the city, and no place to go. Given a knock on the door, an available bus, a placxe to go and a chance to pick up some meds and personal items I'm sure a LOT more people would have left the city. As far as going house to house- it's not impossible if we decided to put effort and money into it. And that's really the point- somehow it just wasn't worth the effort. Not worth giving up the "meet-and-greet" for a couple of days. Not worth appointing someone to FEMA who might actually know what they are doing and who might not actually interfere with getting aid to the victims.
More than 9-11, more than the war in Iraq, I think that this event really is a moral watershed. There are no strings to pull to make people afraid like 9-11. Now we will see who cares and who doesn't. Geezer, I know you're all safe and happy where you are. But someday it might be you and your community needing help. Think deeply about why you are exercising sophistry to defend why thousands of people died unecessarily. You pretend to be reasonable, but you always wind up on the side that doesn't care. Take care for your soul, Geezer. You will lose something essential if you haven't lost it already.
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
From the "Violence and Looting..." threadQuote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
They should have made mandatory evacuation actually possible by commandeering buses, trains and planes and doing a house to house evacuation.
So the government should be able to violate peoples' rights, such as their right of privacy and freedom from search, seizure, and arrest without a warrant, in response to what it considers a threat to their safety? That the government should be able to commandeer private property without due process because they think there's an emergency? Can we drop back to the liberalism of the Patriot Act from this?
Besides, imagine the resources needed to do a "house to house" search and evacuation of an area of several thousand square miles consisting of everything from bayou to apartment blocks, with a population of several million.
Response could always be better, but what you're asking above would not be possible no matter who was in charge, or what plans had been made.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
Geezer, I think you misunderstood the post,
there are buses and transport (planes trains and ships) which can be used to transport people in need and would have done so if they had been asked.
They were not asked.
New Orleans has a huge population of poor with no cars, and most of them had no way to leave the city.
Hospitals and nursing homes were not evacuated...and it is their fault? Give me a break.
The local authorities let people down, FEMA has taken over authority which they failed to execute, and people were ignored to death for days before anyone listened....
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what's been happening people are dying, mother need help with their kids
Landrieu is upset
http://www.ericblumrich.com/wmf/This-Week-Landrieu-puch-Bush.wmv
Mary Landrieu
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