The violence and looting of New Orleans: what does that tell...
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 6, 2005 01:27
VIEWED: 11972
PAGE 12 of 13
Quote:Geezer- you have to centralize distribution anyway- tents, medicine, food, toilets... It's not generally a case of delivering water to the doorstep (except where you are literally dropping food and water on rooftops). Do you have any other criticisms of my observations?
The problem with setting up centralized water purification stations is getting the water out to the people who need it.
BTW- I didn't want this to get lost in the other thread. It appears that FEMA was supposed to be in charge as of Sept 27th. But they didn't deliver to coordination, causing local agencies to delay their own efforts. Not only that, I've read several reports from various sources where FEMA shut down independent aide from the Red Cross, Walmart, the Coast Guard, Jefferson Parish police etc. And at least one of Blanco's requests for National Guard assistance from another state was held up in Washington from Aug 27th or 28th to Sept 3. Also, I was looking at who has authority to do what- clearly, the Federal government wins ahnds down because not only did it have authority (through FEMA) to coordinate aid, it also has authority to essentially commandeer civilian airplanes and trains, and to call on the military. Nagin had control of the city buses and bus drivers. I suppose he MIGHT have taken control of school buses, but wouldn't be able to compel school bus drivers because (if NO is like LA) the city does not control the school system. As far as doing house to house- that would be up to the city police, and I suppose the National Guard if there were enough to go around. Blanco did everything I thought she could and should do- re-route the roads, request Fedeal assistance, activate the LA National Guard and request assistance from other state Nationl Guards. It looks to me like Nagin and Blanco were kind of trapped by FEMA. People are still dying but ....
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Geezer- you have to centralize distribution anyway- tents, medicine, food, toilets... It's not generally a case of delivering water to the doorstep (except where you are literally dropping food and water on rooftops). Do you have any other criticisms of my observations?
The problem with setting up centralized water purification stations is getting the water out to the people who need it.
BTW- I didn't want this to get lost in the other thread. It appears that FEMA was supposed to be in charge as of Sept 27th. But they didn't deliver to coordination, causing local agencies to delay their own efforts. Not only that, I've read several reports from various sources where FEMA shut down independent aide from the Red Cross, Walmart, the Coast Guard, Jefferson Parish police etc. And at least one of Blanco's requests for National Guard assistance from another state was held up in Washington from Aug 27th or 28th to Sept 3. Also, I was looking at who has authority to do what- clearly, the Federal government wins ahnds down because not only did it have authority (through FEMA) to coordinate aid, it also has authority to essentially commandeer civilian airplanes and trains, and to call on the military. Nagin had control of the city buses and bus drivers. I suppose he MIGHT have taken control of school buses, but wouldn't be able to compel school bus drivers because (if NO is like LA) the city does not control the school system. As far as doing house to house- that would be up to the city police, and I suppose the National Guard if there were enough to go around. Blanco did everything I thought she could and should do- re-route the roads, request Fedeal assistance, activate the LA National Guard and request assistance from other state Nationl Guards. It looks to me like Nagin and Blanco were kind of trapped by FEMA. People are still dying but ....
Please don't think they give a shit.
Whew! All in all, I have to say I am impressed with the level of intelligence on this site....not bad, folks....I enjoy witnessing vigorous discussion from folks that actually read and go beyond the media sound bites!!! You're my kind of people....
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And that's why they used water-tankers in Iraq - because it was so inefficient and costly.
Nope. Because they were providing water for military units that were mobile and able to concentrate in locations where distribution was easy, and had the equipment on hand (canteens, camel packs, vehicles with water cans, etc.) to carry water with them.
In the Iraqi cities, the population had better mobility than in flooded conditions like the Gulf Coast, and also were more prepared to transport and store water, having had to do it before due to Iraq's less convenient infrastructure.
Plenty of bottled water was distributed in Iraq as well.
Providing water to a basically immobile population is a whole different story from Iraq. Bottled water is easy to make, easy to store, easy to ship, and easy to distribute. It can be transported and delivered right to the folks who need it.
Think about it. Would you rather have to find, in your flooded home, some container you were sure was sanitary, carry it possibly miles through flooded, debris filled streets, and then carry it back home (water weighs about 8 lb per gallon) through the flood? Or have a truck come by and give you a case of bottled water?
I realize you wouldn't agree with me if I said fire is hot, but come on...
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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My take on this is- For people who are stranded and can't be immediately rescued, clearly dropping bottled water and MREs make the most sense. For collection/ staging areas and temporary on-site housing, on-site purification along with porta-potties, generators, and rudimentary medical facilities make the most sense. It all depends on what you're trying to do. But the question of bottled or purified water is prolly a moot point anyway since the authorities look like they're bound and determined to get and keep EVERYONE out of the city. (Including the Red Cross. www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html)
To some extent I wonder how much this is driven by safety issues and how much by spin control. The picture is going to be ugly, and the hell of it is that I guess about 10-15% of the bodies they recover will have been found to have been dead for 0-3 days... people who missed being rescued by just a little bit. Will we see reporters "embedded" with National Guard and the military? Will we get official "happy news" briefings from Michael Brown and Chertoff? I expect a LOT of PR from the WH in the next few weeks.
It's all too much for me. I think I'm going to watch several hours of FF now...
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Quote:Umm... the less said about my temper, the better...
Whew! All in all, I have to say I am impressed with the level of intelligence on this site....not bad, folks....I enjoy witnessing vigorous discussion from folks that actually read and go beyond the media sound bites!!! You're my kind of people....
Please don't think they give a shit.
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Geezer,
Now you're just being absurd.
OF COURSE bottled water makes sense for stranded victims - roughly 50,000 out of a million (or 5% of the total). But for EVERYBODY ???? SHEESH !
So go ahead, now tell me why they had to deliver bottled water to centers.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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SignyM
I hear 'ya. It really is about damage control - not letting in people who would dispute the administration's happy, happy, HAPPY ! reporting.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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This thread got long. I started a continuation thread with a more relevant title, if anyone wants to move to it.
Trying to be constructive Chrisisall
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Gino,
You said,
Even in "safe areas" like Houston?
No, I meant in the original disaster areas. Apparently the HOuston and other outside areas are very well run.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So go ahead, now tell me why they had to deliver bottled water to centers.
Because it's already on hand, it doesn't get interrupted if on-site manchinery or plumbing breaks down, and there are commercial facilities all over the country that are already set up to produce and distribute it. Besides, you can give people several bottles at a time and they can keep them for use as needed. Otherwise you have folk lining up with a plastic cup at a tap every time they need a drink. Rough to do for thousands of folks. Also consider that bottled water, which comes in it's own container, is more practical to use for hygiene, such as washing, rather than trying to round up buckets or pans for everyone.
Now off to Chris's new thread
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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