The violence and looting of New Orleans: what does that tell...

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Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
And you Bush fans are lookin' stupider and sorrier by the minute.

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Yeah...and that would be why I pretty much never come to these boards anymore.

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EDITED for dumass content.
I wouldn't even post on the RWED if it was all Bush-loving right wing hawkish fanatics. And likewise, I wouldn't be here if it was all Communist-Socialist left wing neo-utopiaists either.

EDITED for dumass content.

Tired of being diplomatic Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by G1223:

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First: yes.
Second: Huh? I'd like to see those statistics, please.

Chrisisall

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Well a man put to death that is dead as a doornail has not gotten up and gone out and committed another crime.

Sorry the only person who has gotten up after dying might have been a myth. But I will leave Christ out of this.

TANSTAAFL

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
And you Bush fans are lookin' stupider and sorrier by the minute.

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Yeah...and that would be why I pretty much never come to these boards anymore.

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If you ARE a Bush fan, why come here? Stay on the entertainment side of things. I'm not trying to be funny, really.
I wouldn't even post on the RWED if it was all Bush-loving right wing hawkish fanatics. And likewise, I wouldn't be here if it was all Communist-Socialist left wing neo-utopiaists either.

I did not single you out, however, if do you feel I was speaking to you, I'm sorry that a fellow FF fan is dumb enough to fall for Bush's line of crap.
Happy fantasies.

Tired of being diplomatic Chrisisall

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Chris, hey, you should do a quick check of a person's posting record before you go off on 'em. InevitableB, is a post-bush supporter. He faught in Bush's war and came home very disillusioned. His story is pretty gritty and heartbreaking. I think coming to the board is painful to him on a personal level. Chris, check before you judge, amigo.

IB, I'm always glad to hear from you, no matter what the reason.

The situation in this country is so heartbreaking. As Rue posted:

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And our "President" Bush's response to Florida hurricanes:
FRANCES (2004)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Frances
{I}n Florida on September 1 Governor Jeb Bush declared a state of emergency, Kennedy Space Center closed down, and evacuations of 500,000 people were initially ordered.
It remained stable at category 2 with 105 mph (170 km/h) maximum sustained winds, though, and battered the east coast of Florida for most of September 4. At 11pm, the western edge of Frances's eyewall began moving onshore.
http://english1.people.com.cn/200409/06/eng20040906_156037.html
US President George W. Bush on Saturday (Sept 4) declared Florida a major disaster area as massive Hurricane Frances slowly bore down the southern US state.

Please note that "President" Bush declared Florida a national disaster area BEFORE the hurricane made landfall.

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Folks, what happened this time? What happened?


HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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I was born in New Orleans.

For the first 23 years of my life I lived in the suburb of Metaire.

My family and many friends were still living there.

My familiy is safe and sound and all friends are accounted for except for two. They "should" be okay in terms of survival, but we just haven't heard from them yet. And the rest of us have been communicating through the internet.

Now then. Part of the problem is we felt we had dodged another bullet. Once Katrina went to the east, "those in charge" (city, parish, state, federal) thought New Orleans wasn't going to be much of a problem.

Then Katrina passed and we once again breathed the sigh of relief we had become accustomed to for the last 40 years.

Then the levee broke in three places.

So what happened was not anticipated if New Orleans actually SURVIVED a hurricane. I think this is why response was slower than it should have been.

I also think having FEMA relocated under Homeland Security was part of the problem.

I also think all those different levels of government thought some other agency was the one "in charge".

I also think that since this was America, "those in charge" felt confident we could handle something of this magnitude should it ever happen. After all, look at how well we were able to respond to other natural disasters around the globe in the past.

But I think the dirty little secret is that when you have a city the size of New Orleans and it is a bowl; and that bowl fills up in a matter of hours; then when it comes to handling that crisis; there is no such thing a "good" plan.

That being said there should have been a central command deployed and established as soon as possible.

All the pumps are underwater and inoperable. It's going to take a long time to rebuild the levee under the current conditions and build and deliver over-the-water pumps and purify the water so that it's not contaminated as it gets pumped out.

As soon at the water's pumped out we get the bodies out, bulldoze the irreperable stuctures and clean out the debris.

We also hope that during the years it takes to do this we survive the hurricane seasons of those years.

Then we decide what will or won't be rebuilt if at all.

By then the report of the inevitable congressional investigation will be out.

Then we can argue and point fingers.

Until then, let's donate. Let's mourn the dead and help the displaced. And not forget that New Orleans isn't the only place where lives and homes have been destroyed.

Let's also remember the reason why we're all on this site in the first place and use September 30th as chance to get our minds off this disaster for a couple of hours.

Just felt that as a native I had to chime in. If anybody else in this thread is from New Orleans or has friends and family there, I hope they are as safe and sound as my people. If not, you have my sincerest sympathies.

Keep flying.

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I know this is really premature...

there is so much to do before anything like rebuilding should even be considered.........

but should New Orleans be rebuilt ??

or should it be rebuilt in the same place ??

they are saying that it will take six months or longer to get the water out, once the levees are repaired...then rebuild could start... so long term housing will have to be found for the people who escaped in any case...

there must be a better place to rebuild

somewhere above sea level, somewhere safer in the long term.....

either way this will be a huge investment, in money, in time, in blood... best to do it right, and be sure it can never happen again.

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If it ain't rebuilt in the same place, it ain't New Orleans.

I would hate to see my hometown and its culture eradicated.

But that doesn't mean your point isn't valid.

But what you're talking about is relocating New Orleans not rebuilding it. And you just can't do that. At least not culturally. New Orleans was founded in 1718 and through the centuries there evolved a culture unlike any in the country. That can't be recreated.

If we're not going to rebuild it where it is then we'll have to clean it out and knock down the levees and let it fill in. We can't leave this giant bowl there to become a breeding ground for mosquitoes and God knows what else.

We'll have to consider the impact on the areas south of New Orleans. Do we relocate those people and tear down and remove any place that's below sea level?

I suppose we could clear out enough acreage on the Northshore of Lake Ponchartrain to build a new city big enough to handle around a million people plus businesses and universities and a new stadium for the Saints. But it won't be New Orleans. It might be called that but it won't be New Orleans.

But maybe in long run it might still be more sensible and practical (back home we don't really do sensible and practicle very well) than putting resources into rebuilding it where it is and trying to protect it.

Then we re-draw the map of Louisiana.

Then we bring new meaning to the song "Do You Know What it Means to Miss New Orleans."

C'est la vie.

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Originally posted by G1223:

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Originally posted by citizen:

And after all the justice system is so infallible no innocent will be put to death while the guilty go free.
After all, no one can change

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True people change. I am sure the man who rapes then kills a child feels very sorry and repentent when caught.Want to put a young family memeber where this sort can get at him? I know I do not.

Yes a man changes and not always for the better.

TANSTAAFL

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Oh I really am sick and tired of hearing that BS argument. Well not wanting to execute people like some medieval despot means I must want my familly raped and murdered yeah yeah yeah cause that logically follows.
And the fact that some people change for the worse means you should execute everyone does it?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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"If you ARE a Bush fan, why come here? Stay on the entertainment side of things."

"AnthonyT, there are people who are wrong, and there are people, who by ineptitude or carelessness, get people KILLED. Some folks are gonna get real raw in the way they describe Bush, and I for one will not be bothered in the least by it, it IS personal, and it IS emotional. I called Bush a political android, cold and badly wired. I think that's the nicest description you'll find on this board by Bush non-supporters. Just don't freak when the emotional level goes up, people are still dying."

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I must be confused.

I thought that these message boards were free for all? That the political section was open to people of all political persuasions? That you could disagree with a fellow member of the board without calling them names.

Is the 'Real World Events Discussion' forum only for Bush haters, or is the 'Violence and Looting of New Orleans' thread only for Bush haters?

And is it mandatory to call Bush supporters names?

Does talking about an emotional topic give you permission to behave badly?

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"Finn is worse than an asshole, like Andrew Lynch, they are todies to the President, paid or compensated to overlook what anyone with eyes can see for themselves. The President is a total failure, and that's not a political statement. Those turds need to be either ignored, or banned from this forum."

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This isn't just attacking a president or a political viewpoint. These are direct insults to specific forum members, along with calls to have forum members banned. (Apparently for expressing a contrary point of view.)

When we start calling each other assholes and turds, what we say ceases to have value. When we say that some people don't belong here, or that they don't have the right to speak their minds, we surrender any dignity or righteousness we might have had.

If you can't disagree with civility, what does that say about your quality of character?

If you believe you are better than someone else, it might be a good idea to start behaving better than you are, lest you become the body of evidence against your own superiority.


--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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