Science and mistakes in Firefly: Ask your questions.

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, September 8, 2005 08:45
VIEWED: 13068
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R1Z

Monday, August 29, 2005 10:38 PM

Quote:
Jayne and his Oxygen-breathing gun really make cringe. Serenity is approaching this ring-thing at probably unimaginable velocities by today’s standards and Jayne just pops his head out the airlock and shoots at it (from the hip no less!). Popular science fiction. Even the best of it is queer.

You're just jealous because Jayne is clearly a much better shot with a Callahan Full Bore Autolock than you are.

Take comfort from the knowledge that he gets much more practice than you do. (I hope, for your sake, there are fewer people trying to kill you than are trying to kill Jayne.)

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

R1Z

Monday, August 29, 2005 10:48 PM

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I really like the "Magically Appearing Dolly" that was utilized on the air ambulance that Kaylee and Wash fixed up. You know, the one they used to break into the hospital on Ariel. Yaah, it's really neat -- 'cause see, when the ambulance is flying around on it's nighttime journey to the hospital, you can clearly see that it's got no "Magically Appearing Dolly" (MAD, in the lingo of the biz) hanging underneath it. Even when it first lands on the hospital's landing pad, it's not there.

But as soon as our BDH's need to get out of, or climb into, or hang around and make jokes and small talk in front of the air ambulance, you can see that the MAD has materialized right beneath the landing pads, or feet, of the ambulance. It's really kinda cool! I mean, it musta been something ol' Wash and Kaylee designed into the thing for a reason, right? Probably some super-secret stealth technology that Kaylee whipped up when she wasn't fighting off the Magical Space Monkeys (MSM's fer short) or some such. You know, a MAD that increases the height of your special air ambulance so your BDH's can all be in frame (and won't hit their heads on an air ambulance that's a little too low to the ground).

Yep, I do LOVE those "Magically Appearing Dollies" that come equipped on every jury-rigged air ambulance in the Firefly 'verse. Yessiree!

(Relaxes and waits. Thinks to self: "Man, I gotta hear this one.")

The MAD is called a gurney in the catalogs, and a "cart" by the hospital staff and even here, on Earth that will be "Earth that was" they stay parked just inside the door at the ambulance entrance, along with wheelchairs.

What is a glitch is that patients that die en route or are dead at the scene have to be pronounced dead by the docs in the Emergency Dept. before they go to a morgue, if there is one. EMTs can't pronounce them as dead. (Many hospitals nowadays don't even have a morgue, which implies autopsies performed on the premises. They have a body holding room.)

Alternately, someone dead at the scene can be pronounced by a coroner or medical examiner, in which case they wouldn't go to a hospital morgue, they'd go directly to the county morgue.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

SHORNY

Monday, August 29, 2005 11:06 PM

in Objects in Space- Early (Earlie?) is not wearing gloves while he is out in space looking in as the crew is sitting around talking about River (you can see his left hand). This has always bugged me. I know he is tough, but how can he survive such cold temperatures as those found in space.

R1Z

Monday, August 29, 2005 11:50 PM

Quote:
in Objects in Space- Early (Earlie?) is not wearing gloves while he is out in space looking in as the crew is sitting around talking about River (you can see his left hand). This has always bugged me. I know he is tough, but how can he survive such cold temperatures as those found in space.

Good One!!! I never noticed that before.

Just watched it again--Jubal has gloves that match his suit on when he seals the hatch on his ship and jumps to Serenity. Then there's a shot where we see part of his helmet and his bare pink RIGHT hand as we look out the ports from inside the ship. The next shot I see Jubal in is him holding a contact microphone to Serenity's hull with his gloved left hand, the camera follows the wire up to his helmet.

Let's see what His Firefly-like Correctness has in his arsenal to explain how Jubal avoids frostbite. Chris??

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

GREENFAERIE

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by GunRunner:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
First off, let me say there are no mistakes in Firefly.

Oh really. In the pilot Serenity and the Reaver ship are traveling very slowly when they should be going very fast. Joss has admitted that this is a mistake!

...I see it as a narrative choice, not a technical mistake (Galactica is guilty of this constantly).

Joss was mistaken; it's not a mistake...

DOP Chrisisall

Guess what, you're both correct. It has been noted that we see Serenity and the Reaver ship pass relatively slowly. The key word here is "relatively". Both ships are traveling very quickly, but since the ships are traveling at nearly the same speed and direction,, they are moving relatively slowly.

Yes, this means one of the ships are pointed nearly backwards, but that wouldn't be very unusual if you were preparing to decelerate, or make a major course change -- probably the Reavers were doing exactly that when they passed Serenity.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
Doesn't putting the ENTIRE population in SA seem a little undo-able? You're talkin' BILLIONS fer cryin' out loud!!!
No, the OWSUMEJ Gate is the only answer. SA would be limited to a few hundred thousand at best.
Are you suggesting most were left to die on Earth-that-was? And that the FF galaxy is populated by under a million at this point? Or has enough time passed for a few hundred thousand to grow into billions?
GIVE ME DATA SO I CAN BUY YOUR THEORY! (the OWSUMEJ Gate sounds too much like Stargate....)

au contraire, There was more than one ship, and they were badass man, I mean big!
The ships also had a crew, possibly generational, in-order to over-see the automated systems.
As with all evacuations of this order the majority of people were left on Earth to die (largely undesirables, single mothers, girl/boy bands, liberals etc.).

The Numbers Game:
This explains how I came by the numbers I use later, just jump to the summary if you don't want to check my math...

FireFly's Population
Summising:
If memory serves there is three core worlds, and the rest are less developed 'rim' worlds. Its been noted that there is roughly 70 worlds in total, so thats 67 rim worlds, most of which are small moons.
I think its reasonable to assume that a small moon couldn't support more than 100,000 people, and would on average have between 10,000 to 100,000. lets assume an average of fifty thousand per moon.
Lets assume that there are a total of ten 'rim' planets, each averaging a population of roughly one million to a maximum of one hundred million. Lets assume an average of fifty million per world.
The three core worlds were settled first, and by necessity have a higher population, lets assume an average of one billion (thats an American Billion, as you guys can't count high enough for the proper British Billion

)

So we have:
* 57 moons averaging fifty thousand people, ~3,250,000 in total.
* 10 rim worlds averaging fifty million people, ~500,000,000 in total.
* 3 core worlds averaging a billion people, ~3,000,000,000 in total.

Adding this all together gives a rough educated guess of ~3,503,250,000 people in the FireFly universe, which is around half the current population of the Earth. (Ignoring space stations and the like as they are likely to contribute little to the population)

Population growth in the 'verse
Now we can work backward. Taking into account the goverment would of likely imposed breeding programs in order to rebuild the population, and assuming:
* There was a period of 450 years to concentrate on population growth.
* A generation spans 25 years.
* The goverment breeding programs required couples to have three to six children (assuming an average of four).

With those assumptions we can summise 18 generations have passed.
Using these numbers a population of over 3 billion could grow from a few thousand in just ten generations (try it and see). Thats a rather optomistic assesment, so lets use real world figures:

Quote:
The [[]year[]]2000 growth rate of 1.4 percent, when applied to the world's 6.1 billion population, yields an annual increase of about 85 million people.

http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Educators/Human_Populati
on/Population_Growth/Population_Growth.htm

So dividing 3,503,250,000 by 1.4 18 times gives us:
8,206,660. So Our starting population figure is somewhere between a few thousand and eight billion.
Lets take the average of around four million.

The 'Ark' ships
So we've got to split up four million evacuees onto an arbitary number of ships. Assuming ten ships were launched, thats 400,000 people per ship.
Now the ships utilized Bussard Ram scoops so they could obtain their energy straight from space, thus theres no need to worry about power issues, or life support as it seems clear that the FireFly 'verse has the technology to synthesis oxygen, and most of the ships passangers would be in SA.

Now as f

CALONRIEL

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by calonriel:

Yep, I do LOVE those "Magically Appearing Dollies" that come equipped on every jury-rigged air ambulance in the Firefly 'verse. Yessiree!

Sorry to give a mundane answer like this, but the dollies a provided by the hospital; check out Zoe grabbing one as she almost goes off camera after she gets out of the ambulance, and the shadows of 'em are also visible on the pad as the copter lands on the lower left and right of the screen.

YFC Chrisisall

Shadows? Where? Sorry, I don't see them, buddy. Nice try, though. How does Zoë go and "grab one" if she can't get out of the ambulance until it's landed -- yet the dolly is already under the ambulance when it lands?!? Besides, immediately before the ambulance lands we see in the long shot that there's nothing sitting on the landing pad. Hence my term: "Magically Appearing"!

That thing is clearly a piece of equipment that the wranglers on the set moved that gigantic ambulance prop around on. I think it was probably gonna be eliminated via CGI or something but they perhaps ran out of time (or else it was never supposed to be included "in frame" in the first place). It's so clear to see underneath that ambulance -- one solid piece in a the shape of a capital "I". Sorry -- I think I need a better explanation from you. I . . . I'm . . . shocked and . . . disappointed.

Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
The MAD is called a gurney in the catalogs, and a "cart" by the hospital staff and even here, on Earth that will be "Earth that was" they stay parked just inside the door at the ambulance entrance, along with wheelchairs.

Sorry, R1Z -- I think you're confusing the "Magically Appearing Dolly" (MAD) that appeared out of nowhere (and the ambulance physically landed on) with the two silver "Thule-Inspired Body Units" (TIBU's) that our heroes Simon and River are hidden inside.

The MAD is a very rare specimen, clearly perfected in the course of research on the trans-universe stargate jump that enabled all of humanity to get to the new star system; the TIBU's are commonplace units for transporting the sick and injured (and dead) that were licensed from the manufacturers of the old Thule cargo boxes on Earth-That-Was. Same design as what we carry our junk on vacation with now.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
Then there's a shot where we see part of his helmet and his bare pink RIGHT hand as we look out the ports from inside the ship.
Let's see what His Firefly-like Correctness has in his arsenal to explain how Jubal avoids frostbite. Chris??

Sorry to enter the realme of the mundane once more, but his hand was gloved. If you pause it you will see the yellowish light from inside Serenity mixing w/the purple of his suit, giving a sort of yellow/pink appearance to his glove. The same colour is also reflected at the top of his helmet.
Duh.(very nice try, though)

YFC Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
Quote:
in Objects in Space- Early (Earlie?) is not wearing gloves while he is out in space looking in as the crew is sitting around talking about River (you can see his left hand). This has always bugged me. I know he is tough, but how can he survive such cold temperatures as those found in space.

Good One!!! I never noticed that before.

Just watched it again--Jubal has gloves that match his suit on when he seals the hatch on his ship and jumps to Serenity. Then there's a shot where we see part of his helmet and his bare pink RIGHT hand as we look out the ports from inside the ship. The next shot I see Jubal in is him holding a contact microphone to Serenity's hull with his gloved left hand, the camera follows the wire up to his helmet.

Let's see what His Firefly-like Correctness has in his arsenal to explain how Jubal avoids frostbite. Chris??

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

Basically Jubals suit is high-tech military stuff. The issues are worse than 'frostbite'... Without gloves Jubal would experience explosive decompression. He didn't pop all over the windows did he

.
His hand appears to be uncovered because his gloves act like those sunglasses that go dark to clear when light shines on them...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by calonriel:
How does Zoë go and "grab one" if she can't get out of the ambulance until it's landed -- yet the dolly is already under the ambulance when it lands?!? Besides, immediately before the ambulance lands we see in the long shot that there's nothing sitting on the landing pad. Hence my term: "Magically Appearing"!

Look again: the ambulance lands - Zoe gets out - she moves to the right, going almost totally out of camera, next shot she's in she has a cart.
The landing shot just before that has two shadows (undefined as they may be, groups of 'dollies' can't be rulled out)on the bottom left, and the bottom right, visible just before the shot ends.

I HATE TO REPEAT MYSELF!!!!

Agitated YFC Chrisisall

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