WIll we believe him again?
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Monday, August 22, 2005 08:56
VIEWED: 11093
PAGE 5 of 12
Here's the mistake most people make towards those who voted for Bush. I believe most people voted for Bush, not because they supported his policies or his ability to lead this country, but because he seemed lessor of two evils. They voted for the devil they knew (Bush), instead of the devil they didn't know (a candidate with a voting record that was so inconsistent that not even the political experts could decide what Kerry stood for).
If the Democrats could give us a better choice, they would reclaim the White House in a landslide. The problem is, the party has lost it's way, and they'll probably just push another nightmare candidate out there (Hillary????) and lose again, and we'll be stuck with another Bush (Jeb) living in the White House!
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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Damn, Mac.... whatdya gotta go draggin' us all down with the truth for? 
Sadly, I couldn't agree more.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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I was never too fond of either Clinton. After NAFTA I crossed Bill off my November gift list, and since Hillary just assumed the DLC Chair I tossed her name in the trash bin. It's not like there aren't honest Democrats out there: Feingold, Conyers, Waxman, Dean come to mind. But the party as a whole sucks.
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Quote:Senate Permanent Subcommitte on Investigations
Yep, good old "Bush Basher" Senator Levin and MP George Galloway, those are some *really* credible sources of information. A quick google search shows the leftist blogosphere is full of these nonsense charges. Plain old divert and distract tactics, smear the US and President Bush while covering up the source of the problem in the first place!
Norm Coleman REPUBLICAN -MN Chairman 202-224-5641
Ted Stevens (R-AK)
Tom Coburn (R-OK)
Lincoln D. Chafee (R-RI)
Robert F. Bennett (R-UT)
Pete V. Domenici (R-NM)
John W. Warner (R-VA)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI)
Thomas R. Carper (D-DE)
Mark Dayton (D-MN)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Mark Pryor (D-AR)
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Quote:Other than ALLOWING a left wing to even exist, the U.S., according to your many posts, has never done anything wrong, ever !
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Yes, the US bought lots of oil, AFTER it was illegally smuggled and laundered. That does not make it the US's fault.
Canardman is proud of you!
bitty punk Chrisisall
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Quote:
Posted by Signym:
The report also found that individuals and companies in the United States accounted for 52% of all oil-voucher kickbacks paid to Saddam Hussein. The largest of theses recipients, Houston based Bayoil and its CEO, Bay Chalmers have been indicted by the US Department of Justice for their actions.
Let's see. This is supposed to be some sort of argument for how corrupt GWB and his administration are. So we have this report that a private company was involved in kickbacks to Saddam and the CEO has been indicted by GWB's Justice Department. Now everyone else involved, in England, France, Russia and at the UN are wandering around free. In fact these people represent the rest of the world whose lead you want us to follow. I humbly suggest that you apply for a tuition refund for any logic courses you may have taken.
Fivver
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Quote:
Originally posted by fivver:Quote:
Posted by Signym:
The report also found that individuals and companies in the United States accounted for 52% of all oil-voucher kickbacks paid to Saddam Hussein. The largest of theses recipients, Houston based Bayoil and its CEO, Bay Chalmers have been indicted by the US Department of Justice for their actions.
Let's see. This is supposed to be some sort of argument for how corrupt GWB and his administration are.
Actually, no. Your premise is wrong, fellow student. I believe this was brought up as a counter to the asertion that the French and Germans were the primary beneficiaries of OOF.
The point (I think it's the point) of this thread is not actually that there's any hard evidence that Bush plans to go to war with Iran, but whether or not we should trust him. I believe Signy and others seem to think that he has betrayed the country's trust.
I'm very curious, but I doubt that I'll get much of an answer, if any of y'all think the U.S. has ever done anything in our short 200 year stint on this planet for which we should be ashamed (that is other than the biggies like slavery--now I might put Hiroshima here and the genocide of the Native Americans, but there's some indication that posters here have found those actions justified). So is there anything that besmirches America's good name today, anything at all?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Dueling quotes. AJ-Your quote
Quote:My quote:
"A report released last night by Democratic staff on a Senate investigations committee presents documentary evidence that the Bush administration was made aware of illegal oil sales and kickbacks paid to the Saddam Hussein regime but did nothing to stop them." Another hack job by the biased democrat Senate staffers. Not credible.
Quote:Find the full report, signed by the chair and post it here if you have anything further to dismiss. Or take it up with the Senate.
The Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations assigned to investigate the scandal has also concluded that "The United States (government) was not only aware of Iraqi oil sales which violated UN sanctions and provided the bulk of the illicit money Saddam Hussein obtained from circumventing UN sanctions. On occasion, the United States actually facilitated the illicit oil sales." etc...
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Quote:Wow, I guess that shows me, huh? Good thing I'm not in position to catch the spray!
Why would anyone answer such a silly, self loathing, defeatist question? Talk about an loaded premise. Try "when did you stop beating your wife?" next time. If you want to toss dirt on the US and besmirch her good name then do it yourself.
Oh BTW I'd like to address one point:
Quote:No, actually that was not the issue. The point was that Bay Oil and other US oil companies purchased oil and gave kickbacks to Saddam, no third parties were involved.
Yes, the US bought lots of oil, AFTER it was illegally smuggled and laundered. That does not make it the US's fault. By your reasoning everyone who has ever bought oil during that time is also guilty because oil, like most commodities, is fungible.
And since you asked why we were talking about this in the first place, well... why, look, I believe YOU were the one who brought it up!
Quote:
Clearly, the most culpable parties in undermining the UN are the French, followed closely by the Germans, the Russians, and the Chinese. Their double dealing with the Iraqis and the outright corruption with the Oil-For-Food scandal irrepairably discredited the UN. Their treachery in that institution has done more to damage it than anyone else ever could.
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Quote:
You are right about the first part, I'll doubt you'll get much of an answer either.
Why would anyone answer such a silly, self loathing, defeatist question? Talk about an loaded premise. Try "when did you stop beating your wife?" next time.
If you want to toss dirt on the US and besmirch her good name then do it yourself.
Andrew Lynch
Don't you see why he's asking? We're trying to figure out whether you have any ability to see mistakes when they've been made. Obviously you don't, or aren't willing to admit to them, which makes your assertion that Bush has done no wrong pretty much meaningless.
And there's nothing self-loathing, nor defeatest about owning up to your mistakes and striving to avoid them in the future.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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