WIll we believe him again?
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Monday, August 22, 2005 08:56
VIEWED: 11093
PAGE 3 of 12
G1223
Quote:We did?
Yeah I remember the Carter era we lost respect
Quote:So?
The reality is that Iran has missles in devolpment and those mssiles can strike Israel.
Quote:except for the approximately 4-4.5 million Palestinian Arabs living in Israel, West Bank and Gaza www.pademographics.com for whom life consists of ident cards; checkpoints; confiscated farms, homes, and shops; enforced unemployment; and group punishment
Israel is...one of the few representive governments
Quote:I suppose you've never heard of "The butcher of Sabra and Chatila" where 2000 Palestinians refugees were murdered by forces led and backed by Israel? (I'll leave it to you to find out exactly who that butcher is.) www.rense.com/general8/butcher.htm
and is surrounded by nations that would murder women and children or at least support the organizations that do so.
Or Israel's ongoing killing of women and children? www.ifamericansknew.org
Israel being a model of democracy is like Nazi Germany being a model of order.
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Since we're talking about Iraq, I have an anomaly I'd like you to help me solve. Rumsfeld originated an oddball report that IRAN was the source of sophisticated bombs found in Iraq.
Here's the oddball part. Iran is primarily a Shiite nation, and while the Iraqi government is mainly Shiite the Iraqi insurgency is primarily Sunni. I don't care how much some Iranians hate the USA, I just can't see them sending sophisticated explosives to the Sunnis. So- who was the intended recipient?
Also, the insurgents do seem to have gotten their hands on military-style explosives, because they are attacking USA convoys again. The convoys, I have been told, were recently armored, but the new explosives seem to be punching through the armor. I know that arms depots were looted right after the invasion- is this an emerging problem? www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/25/iraq/main651082.shtml
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Since we're talking about Iraq, I have an anomaly I'd like you to help me solve. Rumsfeld originated an oddball report that IRAN was the source of sophisticated bombs found in Iraq.
Here's the oddball part. Iran is primarily a Shiite nation, and while the Iraqi government is mainly Shiite the Iraqi insurgency is primarily Sunni. I don't care how much some Iranians hate the USA, I just can't see them sending sophisticated explosives to the Sunnis. So- who was the intended recipient?
Also, the insurgents do seem to have gotten their hands on military-style explosives, because they are attacking USA convoys again. The convoys, I have been told, were recently armored, but the new explosives seem to be punching through the armor. I know that arms depots were looted right after the invasion- is this an emerging problem? www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/25/iraq/main651082.shtml
Don't know where you get the idea that it's an oddball report. Someone is sending those bombs into Iraq. There have been many reports of Iran assisting in the overthrow of the Iraqi Gov't, and there's no love for the US in Iran. ( They just 'elected' one of the terrorist who held US citizens hostage for 444 days, back in '80-81.) What else are the terrorist in Iraq going to do w/ the explosives than to attack the coalition forces? It makes perfect sense, from their stand point.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
So President Bush has done *absolutely nothing* against Iran except for state the obvious -- being if Iran flouts its international agreements (ie, treaties it has willingly signed) and pursues nuclear arms it will be subject to UN SECURITY COUNCIL resolution
So by this logic, if the US flouts its international agreements ( as you say treaties it willingly signed ) it too should be subject to sanction...
Would that be correct ?
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml
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AND THE AWARD FOR MISSING THE POINT goes to....
Quote:Which Iraqi government? The current one? The current Iraqi administration is primarily moderate Shiite, and the elected Iraqi representatives have strong radical Shiite presence. NOTE: Same religion as Iran. Why would Iran want to overthrow a Shiite government which is friendly enough to have signed a military training agreement? If your reports actually refer to Iran overthrowing the current Iraqi government what would be the stated purpose? If true this would be a major factor to consider.
There have been many reports of Iran assisting in the overthrow of the Iraqi Gov't and there's no love for the US in Iran.
Quote:Not according to the CIA
They just 'elected' one of the terrorist who held US citizens hostage for 444 days, back in '80-81.
Quote:Not really. If the "terrorists" are Sunnis, then the Sunnis could use the explosives to attack Shiites. And that would be the LAST place the Iranians would want to explosives to go. It's possible that there is a deep split within the Iraqi government between US-friendly Shiites and radical Shiites, and the radical Shiites are preparing for civil war against their own government. It's also possible that the explosives were sent without the knowledge of the Iranian government. I admit that I'm confused. I was hoping for some INTELLIGENT parsing of this problem. If you have more to say besides apparent illogic please explain.
What else are the terrorist in Iraq going to do w/ the explosives than to attack the coalition forces? It makes perfect sense, from their stand point.
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Quote:WTF are you talking about? Please explain in detail how this is DIFFERENT from the buildup to the Iraq invasion by specific reference to Iraq hx cause from my angle it's playing the same.
I find it funny that you are so critical of President Bush when he is doing the exact things you previously critized him for NOT doing in the run up for the 2003 war in Iraq, ie not working with our "allies" and not going through the UN.
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AJ is quite correct. The US is letting the Europeans and the IAEA take the lead in working with Iran. You wanted a specific reference... Here's a quote from an AP artcle posted today:
Quote:
The United States has stood aside while European governments negotiated with Iran. After prolonged talks with Britain, France and Germany during which Tehran put uranium conversion on hold, Iran this month rejected a package of aid measures, including offers of nuclear fuel in exchange for a promise to abandon plans for uranium enrichment.
Iran then restarted its Isfahan plant that converts uranium to gas, which is the last step in processing the radioactive ore before it can undergo enrichment to become reactor fuel or the material for nuclear weapons.
The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency responded with a resolution Thursday urging the Iranians to again put the process on hold. Diplomats familiar with the International Atomic Energy Agency's proceedings said Iran was given a Sept. 3 deadline to halt or face possible referral to the U.N. Security Council for consideration of sanctions against its struggling economy.
Here's the link to the entire article:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050814/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ir
an_1
I've got to reiterate AJ's question. The process in place for dealing with Iran is exactly what you've stated should have been followed with Iraq. Do you just not understand what's going on or is there just no pleasing you?
I'd also like to address the whole Shiite/Sunni discussion. IMHO what's got the Iranian mullas turbans in wad is the whole idea of democracy. They are in real danger of a democratic uprising that will threaten their power and the specter of a free and functioning democracy right next door scares them. They will ally with anyone who will make trouble for the US and the fledgling Iraqi democracy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Fivver
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Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
Like the phony "draft" canard and the "Bush Lied" memes, this is just another example of a bogus issue raised to push the leftist agenda.
This old canard? Here we go again with the "leftist agenda" memes. Just another example smearing an issue to cover up Bush's lies.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by lynchaj:
So President Bush has done *absolutely nothing* against Iran except for state the obvious -- being if Iran flouts its international agreements (ie, treaties it has willingly signed) and pursues nuclear arms it will be subject to UN SECURITY COUNCIL resolution
So by this logic, if the US flouts its international agreements ( as you say treaties it willingly signed ) it too should be subject to sanction...
Would that be correct ?
What no answer ?
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml
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As for the question about the US working with the EU on the issue of Iran....
Go to the source I guess:
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder:
" The Europeans and the Americans are united in this goal," he said. "Up to now we were also united in the way to pursue this."
" Mr Schroeder reiterates his views in an interview to be published Sunday in the German weekly Bild am Sonntag, labelling military action "extremely dangerous".
"This is why I can with certainty exclude any participation by the German government under my direction," Mr Schroeder tells the paper. "
Germany attacks US on Iran threat
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4149090.stm
Seems like unilateralism to me..... or is Bush off his ADD meds again ?
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml
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