It's called
POSTED BY: rue
UPDATED: Monday, August 15, 2005 19:31
VIEWED: 3230
PAGE 2 of 4
Oh, Mama, can this really be the end? To be stuck inside of America with the Orwell blues again. . .?
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"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."
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Quote:So Auraptor, it is your contention that being systematically beaten to death over the course of several days is not torture? I just want it to be clear to everyone that this is what you mean.
Sorry, it's not torture.
I only cited a few examples. I did not include mass murder (stuffing a couple hundred men into an air deficient container and closing the doors for - days.) Nor did I inlude rape, electric shock, suffocation and other techniques. So, again, just to be clear to everyone, would you also contend that this is not torture?
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Auraptor, if this is what you truly believe, then have the courage of conviction. Stand up and say it loudly and proudly!
If not, maybe we can agree that these were horrible things that should not have happened, and discuss how events could have gone so hideously wrong.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:Twisted little bullies in a schoolyard beating up on the littlest kids and rationalizing that it's okay 'cause you're not hitting them as hard as you got beat the night before by your dads.
Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm tired of the rationalizing, finessing and sheer out-and-out schizophrenia of the right-wing mind . Y'all remind me of nothing more than a bunch of ....
Too scared to think your way out of problems.
And torture is similar to rape. You can be invaded while being restrained, and you can be beaten to death during, the question is: how would you like your rape?
An IDIOT question; NOT AT ALL.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
They want to kill you and your loved ones. So, don't feel too much pity for them.
Yeah, I saw my address on their mission statement.
How about getting real about it.
I'd rather see some terrorists escape capture if it meant some absolutly innocent human beings didn't have to suffer and die, but that's just me. I'm like that, wantin' to see the innocent not get persecuted for nothing. It's a weakness of my left brain, I guess. I should have that looked into sos I'd have no problem seein' any of 'them' in need of payback across the board including turning the middle east into a glass sculpture, right?
Sorry, collaterial damage in the numbers I've seen over the years is just another term for sloppy plans and careless execution. We could at LEAST try for a standard after the shooting...
Chrisisall
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Funny how folks pick out parts they don't like, and then comment on select parts.
I'm not excusing what a few ( yes,few ) rogue soldiers/civilian contractors did. They thankfully were caught and will be punished. As they should be. We'll agree on that.
But to paint w/ a over sized brush that the U.S. is no different than what Saddam did, or that such horrific acts are representitive of who we are as a people, then I've gotta call BULL.
There are armies of propaganda teams out there trying to discredit the US at every turn. Some of them right here in the US do so merely for the sake of their own political gain. To lend credence to such stories and ignore the real horrors that occured under Saddams reign is a tragic disservice to human kind.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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AURAPTOR said, "But remember, many of these folks have had years of brutal training in terrorist camps, to endure all sorts of questioning. They want to kill you and your loved ones. So, don't feel too much pity for them."
OK, just for the sake of discussion, here. If "many of these folks have had years of brutal training in terrorist camps, to endure all sorts of questioning.", then the "some" who are not part of the "many" have had NO training in how to endure abuse/torture/painful but acceptable questioning (depending on your source). Is it ok to sweep them in with the rest? Are we absolutely positive that every single victim was a bad guy? I think not.
I always thought our system of justice was predicated on the concept that it was better to let 10 bad guys go free than to punish ONE innocent man. Or does that only apply to english speakers with lily-white skins?
Ignoring/subverting the Geneva Conventions sends the messsage that it's ok to treat all captured prisoners this way, including American service members, not just in this war/conflict/police action, but in the next.
Fear for your sons.
To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein
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Quote:How many constitutes 'a few'? The numbers of incidents and severity of same suggest POLICY, and policy IS representative of US!!!
Originally posted by AURaptor:
But to paint w/ a over sized brush that the U.S. is no different than what Saddam did, or that such horrific acts are representitive of who we are as a people, then I've gotta call BULL.
Sorry to come on so strong, I just don't understand the inability to recognize when something is wrong, and needs attention...
What? I've been stabbed? Well, I trust my body not to bleed TOO much, and I won't offend my body by going to a hospital, I'm not anti-me for Gods sake Chrisisall
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I'm getting a little mean now, and I'm sorry. I'm gonna back off this for a bit.
Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I heard recently that among the photos and videotapes of Abu Ghraib that were NOT released (remember- we were allowed to see only the least offensive) were pix of children being raped in fron of their parents.
That is absolutely true. Saddam's people reularly used the facility for all sorts of torture including what you described.
Thank God we liberated Iraq and put a stop to it.
H
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