Africa...Can we do anything?

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Saturday, September 5, 2026 02:38
VIEWED: 5821
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GEEZER

Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:20 AM

Rampant HIV/AIDS
Mass Starvation
Grinding poverty
Massive debt
Corrupt governments
Tribal, religious and factional violence

Even with the latest G8 resolutions on debt relief and aid money, is there any real hope for Africa? So much money, and so many tons of supplies and food have already disappeared with no appreciable results.

Given that some (or even many) of the problems are the legacy of colonialism, we can't take that back. What can be done now to make things better? How can we (the rich countries) apply our resources in ways that actually improve the lot of the average African? Is it just more money? would regime change (that loaded term) actually be effective in some countries?

I'm looking for positive suggestions here, not just the usual "it's all (fill in the blank's) fault."

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GEEZER

Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:37 AM

So, just to start with the most outre suggestion...maybe we should just leave them alone. Could it just be possible that the best thing is to do nothing? Let the Africans sort it out by themselves? Or limit support to stuff like HIV/AIDS drugs and other medicine, and then only as requested? I know that this sounds cold, but has all the aid we've provided so far actually done that much good?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:22 AM

I think the big thing is you cannot deal with Africa as a whole. Some countrys can be helped today, and once the example of a successful rehab is established a role model is there to help lead the rest to rebuilding.

One example is Canadian aid to Tanzania.

Instead of pumping in cash, materials to supply the education system and the civil service are being sent in, amongst other efforts of course.

The idea is like this :

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cida_ind.nsf/0/39C326B1A8BC30B785256FBF006C
B6EB?OpenDocument

I would take this even farther, if the G8 changed the way they provided foreign aid. Say each of the G8 sponsered a particular area or country. Then a result could be measured, national pride on the line, etc.

Once you get one country on its feet, you not only have an example, you have a base. Perhaps a revitalized Tanzania, would be better positioned as a partner to assist its neighbors such as Rwanda, or Burundi.

You have alot of mistrust as well as a host of other problems to overcome. But wouldn't it be easier to go this way ?

When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you

http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml

NEUTRINOLAD

Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:10 AM

The only thing we can do to help Africa is to stop voting for those candidates who are clearly unethical and amoral. It is the prevailing policy of preferring profit to every other facet of existence that has destroyed Africa and kept it in poverty.
Of course, this assumes the Africans would similarly stop supporting corrupt individuals as rulers.
Seems unlikely, so I have an alternate suggestion.
Drive it to the brink of collapse, and then give it one more good shove over the cliff. For the vast majority of humanity, only disaster trumps greed, and even that is 20-80. Catastrophe will solve the problem, one way or the other.

PERFESSERGEE

Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:30 AM

Ahh, Africa.......... Staggering beauty, enormous natural resources...... Staggering corruption and hideous brutality........ All too often existing in the exact same geographic location. Very, very complicated place, and a serious contender for poster child for the concept of "intractable geopolitical problem". IMHO, in terms of aggregate human suffering, no other region can touch it.

I've been there 5 times (all southern Africa, most of it in South Africa proper), and I've read and thought a lot about (and personally witnessed some of) the problems Geezer raises. Thanks, Geezer, for posting a thought-provoking thread that might get us thinking about how to solve some grievous human problems instead of promoting ideology. I wish I had easy answers, but I don't and neither does anyone else. I guess that's the definition of "intractable problem". But there's blame aplenty, and it's very widely shared.

The geographic and much of the political structure of Africa are largely results of colonialism, but more in the way colonialism was dismantled than how it was administered. I'm not condoning colonialism in Africa in any way - to call it shameful and a disgrace is to grossly abuse the concept of "understatement". But, the US gets a pass on this one - we may have abetted the structure in the last 50 or so years (in many ways, many of them also shameful), but Europe gets the fall here. They set it up, and so it makes sense that they should take the lead in ameliorating the damage.

The corruption and brutality are strictly an African responsibility, however. Nobody made political “leaders” steal at rates that make organized crime seem like a bunch of corner thieves, and nobody made them engage in torture and murder at rates that rival the worst that humanity has ever seen, and heaven only knows that’s an incredibly sorry record for comparison. Here, the developed world has abetted the thievery, at least, in shameful ways, mostly via predatory “lending” practices (this is too complicated to get into this late at night, but I have confidence that there will be replies to this post that will further the discussion!). One could also argue about the role of inaction in abetting murder (same parenthetical comment).

This post is already too long, so let me throw out a few suggestions, and I’ll wait for responses. So folks, what should we do?

First, stop predatory lending practices that result in net transfer of assets out of Africa (I’m not talking about theft here, but about debt structure and repayment, as well as how the non-stolen money is spent, often to benefit multinational corporations). Both the IMF and the World Bank have abetted this (more the former than the latter, but both have participated), as have some private lenders, though most private lenders know better than to throw money at Africa.

Second, cancel debt that cannot be repaid (and that the cynical would argue was never meant to be repaid). Some has recently been cancelled, but not all of it. It’s lost money folks; insisting that the destitute try to repay it is to participate in and condone their starvation.

Third, a big chunk of the “cannot be repaid” category can’t be repaid because it was stolen. Find it and recover it. Shouldn’t be that difficult in this electronic banking age. There wasn’t ever any cash involved; it was all paper or electronic transfers. Put the thieves in jail and publicize the bejeebers out of it. Make sure that the world recognizes what kind of thieving murdering scumbags they are (instead of giving them safe exile abroad when someone finally gets rid of them).

Fourth, put every kind of diplomatic and economic pressure on the monsters. Stop supporting them for any reason. Make their lives miserable. Publicize their monstrosity. Seize their assets (the assets sure as hell aren’t being held in their own countries!).

But in the end, Africans are going to have to solve the political problems; no outside force is going to be able to do that. South Africa has great credibility within

FANTASTICLAUGHINGFAIRY

Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:20 AM

I think that as long as there are such terrible regimes in Africa, run by people like Mugabe, there cannot be a long-term solution to the problems.
Unfortunately, there is really no viable way to ensure this without basically repeating Iraq - which is not only very risky, but is als very unlikely, considering how the Iraq war is going, and how little support there is likely to be from the general public (including myself).
I really can't see an end to it myself - maybe people have other suggestions, although I ceratinly think aid-work should continuewhilst these terrible things are happening to our fellow human beings.

...and we will call it...this land...

FANTASTICLAUGHINGFAIRY

Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:20 AM

Anyone with any other ideas?

...and we will call it...this land...

BARNSTORMER

Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:47 PM

Wow, very tough question. It seems to me that pretty much everything depends on the morality of the countries ruler or ruling body or said ruling bodies opposition.

From what I have read in the past, sending money is a futile effort in most cases. Sending food relief tends end up in the mouth of the countries military for the most part.

I'm not familiar with Gino's suggestion on non monetary relief efforts such as infrastructure.
Except for the efforts of the Peace Corps and such.

I'll have to see what I can find concerning what has been tried in the past versus what has actually had a true positive impact.

My knowledge is based on Headlines and blurbs (all of which have been woefully depressing).

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:51 PM

On the aid:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,363663,00
.html

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

GEEZER

Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I think the big thing is you cannot deal with Africa as a whole. Some countrys can be helped today, and once the example of a successful rehab is established a role model is there to help lead the rest to rebuilding.

And not only this, but different countries need different things. Some may just need a bit of money, some - administrative assistance, some - medical or infrastructure, and some (dare I say it?) regime change. I always have wondered about the arrogance or lack of understanding that makes people think they can do a one-size-fits-all program for an entire continent.

Quote:
One example is Canadian aid to Tanzania.

Instead of pumping in cash, materials to supply the education system and the civil service are being sent in, amongst other efforts of course.

The idea is like this :

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/cida_ind.nsf/0/39C326B1A8BC30B785256FBF006C
B6EB?OpenDocument

I would take this even farther, if the G8 changed the way they provided foreign aid. Say each of the G8 sponsered a particular area or country. Then a result could be measured, national pride on the line, etc.

I kind of like this, but have a feeling the rules for this "competition" would have to be pretty strict, or the improvements imposed on the local populace to win could be something other than they'd desire.

Quote:
Once you get one country on its feet, you not only have an example, you have a base. Perhaps a revitalized Tanzania, would be better positioned as a partner to assist its neighbors such as Rwanda, or Burundi.

And then the aid would be seen as coming from fellow Africans, who would be expected to know what really needed to be done. I like the boot-strapping concept.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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