Our time left as a democracy- Part Duex

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, December 14, 2025 23:39
VIEWED: 3686
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SIGNYM

Sunday, May 29, 2005 3:18 PM

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There is a reason why the Founding Fathers limited searches and seizures to "probable cause" and that was to prevent wholesale searches of suspect (or even non-suspect) populations. Wholesale searches are a waste of time and resources, and do not increase internal security.-SignyM

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There is also a reason why the founding fathers granted the people the right to keep and bear arms. One could say that gun control law violates every single aspect of the 2nd Amendment; not only are we still a democracy, but you are surprising on board with this example of a violation of our Constitution. -Finn

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Your question was a little like "Have you stopped beating your wife?" I avoided the question because it was not only a diversionary tactic, it was stupid question (false analogy, false dilemna). Why discuss flawed aruments? So- BTW- here is notice that I will probably not respond to such flawed arguments in the future. Be assured that I'm not "stalling", I just refuse to waste my time.-SignyM

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You avoid the question because you can’t answer it without dismissing your whole ‘fear mongering’ about the end of our democracy, or aligning yourself with the Right. Two things I know you’re not going to do. The fact of the matter is that these are two examples of violations of the Constitution; if one of them leads to the end of our democracy why don’t both of them? I guess the democracy-ending aspect of the loss of a particular freedom depends largely on point of view. The first time a democratic administration employs the Patriot Act, I have a feeling you might decide that our democracy is much stronger.Your argument lacks perspective. That's my point, in case anyone missed it. That’s Geezers point also.-Finn

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It lacks YOUR perspective, or Geezers'. Do you want me to get into what those perspectives are? Better ask Geezer before you drag him into this. AFA the Second Amendment: If you want to discuss the 2nd Amendment, feel free to start another thread. As of this point, you really don't know what my opinion is on the topic, do you? But you presume a whole lot.-SignyM

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SignyM, here's another related theory: Since the late fifties the American economy has been in decline. When oil becomes too expensive to retrieve due to tapped out planetary resources (2012 some say) the world economy will change drastically, and relativly quickly. Our government (the shadow government, the Firm, whatever; the guys that stay) are planning for that day of possible anarchy. They are putting in place all the police state-like short leash options they will need under such circumstances. Freedoms are secondary to survival, and from their point of view they are simply 'bringing order to the galaxy '. A theory I do not fully subscribe to, yet cannot by any means dismiss (I might just be too afraid of it to want to really buy it). Do you think this might be why we're waving goodbye to the fourth amendment these days? P.S., can you start a part 2 for this thread? It is really long.-Chrisisall

SIGNYM

Sunday, May 29, 2005 3:30 PM

Chris- We didn't get to this point by mistake. Policies that bring catastrophe only benefit those with tyrannical plans because they can then use the "lifeboat" paradigm to eliminate rights.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I guess the democracy-ending aspect of the loss of a particular freedom depends largely on point of view. The first time a democratic administration employs the Patriot Act, I have a feeling you might decide that our democracy is much stronger.
Do I detect flamage here? That was pretty colourful, Finn. I think we all have more in common here, politically, that merely reading this thread would have some believe.
I sense the good in you, the conflict. The American media hasn't driven it from you fully.

I thought you would like that.

I don't think I can handle another of these threads this weekend. I have too much work to do. I have to go to the base and follow up on some research. I’ve got to clean the house. I’ve got cookouts to organize, which for a family as large as mine is no small task. Someone’s got to buy the meat, cook the cornbread and the rent the Lizzie McGuire DVD, and it all has to go seamless. It’s a diplomatic nightmare.

I’m passing on any further discussion, guys.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 29, 2005 4:48 PM

My wife just read my 'related theory' (which is not my theory, BTW), and she said something like 'it goes too far', which I hope is true. Still, blowing up the Trade Center and a few thousand people probably sounded a little far out a few years ago. For me, I can't count anything out, only probables and not-so-probables.
As far as Finn goes, the accumulated facts are in his face, and he still resists seeing the possibilities. His world needs to make sense. He almost makes connections, then over thinks it so as to be comfortable for him (I wouldn't talk about him in this way 'cept he said he's gone for a while).
Scariest image burned into the hard drive of my mind as of this, my fourty fifth year on this planet: Dubya standing on the Trade Center wreckage. The words 'Justification for Armageddon' popped into my head.

Said one dinosaur to the other: this too shall pass Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:00 PM

Jasonzzz, I am not getting the connection...
What do your favourite actresses have to do with loss of fourth amendment rights?
Are you afraid Uncle Sam is gonna suspend your right of 'Posting Pretty Babes'?

'Posting Pretty Babes' is in the Bill Of Rights, I think Chrisisall

SERGEANTX

Sunday, May 29, 2005 6:31 PM

I think he's just threadcrapping, Chris.... to make this thread as hard to load as the last one.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:21 PM

Is that why this screen is too wide? I thought my computer got a viris, or sumpin.

Computer wiz (not) Chrisisall

MONTANAGIRL

Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:15 PM

I sent a message to Shiny, and he's deleted the photo spam. (He really is shiny.) I'm not participating in this thread, but I find it very interesting to lurk in.

"One day, lad, all this will be yours ..."
"What - the curtains?"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 29, 2005 10:42 PM

Much obliged, montanagirl.
We appreciate your lurking.
for the help.

No, not the curtains Chrisisall

SERGEANTX

Monday, May 30, 2005 3:38 AM

Hey Jason,

How 'bout you write up the code for it and send it in to Haken? I think the site's code base is in ASP. I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Or you could send him some cash for his time. Of course it would probably only cover a small portion of the many, many hours he's put into this site over the last few years.

Or you could quit being a jackass. No one is forcing you to click these threads, and they say quite clearly how long they are in the link.

The bottom line is Haken has created a truly fan-based site that kicks the shit out of the 'official' board, and he's done it on his own nickel.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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