The last spoken line in the Star Wars saga ...
POSTED BY: STEVEthePIRATE
UPDATED: Friday, May 27, 2005 07:52
VIEWED: 8341
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Quote:
Anakin strangles Amidala in Ep. III, but not for the reason that would have made sense
Now see, there I have to disagree. That scene for me was one of the best in the film - utterly believable. Anakin flips, that is his weakness, every time he flipped I believed it. The stuff he did which I found harder to understand was when he voluntarily did evil/stupid things whilst thinking about them - such as joining Sidious after (believably) chopping off Windu's hand or killing the younglings and so on. His weakness was the strength of his emotions - they made him impulsive, the whole strangling of his misses was wholly believable.
On a different note IMHO your ideas for Anakin would be too much for me within the context of Star Wars (as opposed to say, Buffy). Rape? - he isn't a being without a soul - he couldn't be redeemed from that. Essentially, this is a story for children (no bad thing - many of the finest stories are for children) and I think that would just be too much.
On an even broader note, can we try and be a bit smily and tongue-in-cheek when writing please folks. I am a sensitive soul and like to read friendly, non-personal comments. Thanks peeps
extremely dimensionally transcendental
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Emma:
I'm an old-fashioned chivalrist (not chauvinist). I do not wrestle in the same way with females that I do with males. (NB: There's at least one maneuver known to wrestlers that I would be hesitant to use on a male opponent; but which I would never use on a female. You guys know which one I'm talking about.)
From wrestling analogically to debating, a man argues with a contemporary differently than he does with a younger person or a female. If you think about it, this is a rule that every sane person knows and practices in real-life face-to-face communications. We adjust our presentation of our message based on whether we're talking to a friend, or our friend's child or grandma. (NB: An honest person does not revise the content of the message; but how it's said should be tailored to the person/s receiving it.)
The problem with the Internet is NOT that we don't know each other's names, addresses and phone numbers; but that we don't know anything about the life experiences of the other person, and the 'trigger words' which will effectively end the reasoning process transpiring between communicators.
That is why I like to know the other person's sex, age, and the experiences that are important to them, before I make a response. So, I always check their Profile Page, if they're someone new to me. I really don't want to know what city they live in or their real name, unless they're just exceedingly proud of those details to the point where it becomes important to them to share.
If you felt somehow abused by the process of debate, please remember that the comments were not addressed to you. They were open comments, true, placed in a forum where everyone coud read them. But it's really just a couple or three guys 'wrestling', and occasionally using one of those hold-breaks or reverse-and-pin moves that we'd never use on a female or juvenile. ...But still not that one maneuver, hmmm, guys?
As to the Anakin/Vader strangulation of Amidala, you said:
Quote:
Rape? - he isn't a being without a soul - he couldn't be redeemed from that. Essentially, this is a story for children (no bad thing - many of the finest stories are for children) and I think that would just be too much.
So you had no logical problem seeing him being redeemed from killing a dozen or more children? As far as I am still convinced -- until I see a convincing counter-argument -- he should never have been written as a mass-murderer of Tuskans.
How does Amidala's comforting him after he makes that confession in TAotC make any kind of sense? The Amidala we'd been presented with thus far would have immediately turned him in to the Jedi Council. Think about it. This is exactly the kind of blind Lucas-fanaticism I'm talking about.
Furthermore, if Amidala had spurned Ani a few scenes earlier as I have suggested, that rejection added to his mother's torturous death makes a more believable motivation for the massacre, without fear of alienating the object of his desire (whom has rejected him already) and without betraying the honorable character of Amidala.
Rapes have been portrayed in movies for far longer than nudity. Forceful conquest of females by evil males has been going on in celluloid since the first "I'm a traditionalist"-styled villain tied a farmer's daughter to a railroad track.
Killing a roomful of children and a 'Lakotan village' full of women and children? Not so much. My 11-year old son turned his head from the screen in shame at the actions of his erstwhile hero as Vader held one child in his arms while sabering a couple of others at his feet, and later forcefully commented as we were exiting the theatre, "I just want to hit Anakin!".
I, of course, went into full 'Daddy Mode' and reminded him that it was only a movie... And not a very good one at that.
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
My son is such a good boy. The other day he came running in saying he had just enrolled in a message board for one of his games and "I've already made two
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I'll keep this short & simple!
As I've said above, and in other threads, I enjoyed the new movies. Not as much as the OT mind you, but what the heck. Would I have enjoyed them as much if they weren't "Star Wars"? Possibly not, but I was just intrigued to see the "full story".
I have to admit, Zoid's come up with an excellent alternative story - although that PG-13 rating would just be a glimmer in George Lucas' eye if he went ahead with that plot! Anakin's fall came too fast, too soon - we really need (or maybe we don't) Episode 3.5 to fully explore his descent. Yes he loved Padme but the way he just gave in to Palpatine after killing Mace - it just didn't sit right.
But the problem was, we knew that Anakin had to turn into Vader in time for Ep IV and there was only 2 hours screen time left for it to happen.
OK, I should really get back to work....
(BTW, as I commented in another thread, I've seen Hayden in theatre. Guess what - playing a sulky brat! Although he and co-star Jake Gyllenhall had a hard time keeping straight faces so hard to judge) But rumour has it he can act, I have a DVD of Shattered Glass waiting to prove this to me.)
_____________________________________
"Why would I want to leave Serenity?"
"Can't think of a reason."
Over 100 Serenity screencaps now available at www.destinything.com (yep, bought me a proper name!)
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fray101 wrote:
Quote:
...but I was just intrigued to see the "full story".
I have to admit, Zoid's come up with an excellent alternative story - although that PG-13 rating would just be a glimmer in George Lucas' eye if he went ahead with that plot! Anakin's fall came too fast, too soon - we really need (or maybe we don't) Episode 3.5 to fully explore his descent. Yes he loved Padme but the way he just gave in to Palpatine after killing Mace - it just didn't sit right.
But the problem was, we knew that Anakin had to turn into Vader in time for Ep IV and there was only 2 hours screen time left for it to happen...
Yeah, I knew I was gonna watch Rot$, too. It's like a horrific auto wreck. You really don't want to look, but something makes you turn your head and...
Was this thing really rated PG-13?!? How'd they get that done?
As far as the 'rape' thing is concerned and how it might affect the PG-13 rating, I can think of several 1940's era films that featured implied rapes. Like I said, it need not be graphic. All you'd have to do is show Amidala chained to a bed and then Anakin/Vader entering the room and closing the door behind him. She comes up with a bruised cheek, a split lip, and pregnant, et voila! the rape scene is dispatched with, PG-13 intact. If Luca$ wanted to titillate, he could show her post-'forced entry' with a torn blouse, a la lurid detective dime novels of the 60's.
Like I wrote in another post, another thread: The whole New Trilogy (NT) exercise was like trying to build half a bridge, to meet its other half that was built 20 years before. The problem, as I postulated, is that the older half is so beautiful a work of engineering, while this last half is rickety, off-center and missing some major cross-members. Although the NT does have some really nice (industrial) lights and magic strung along its length, I don't think it makes a proper bridge to the past glory of the franchise.
You stated there was only 2 hours to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. But if Luca$ had been more honest, more true to his characters, the turning would have begun when Amidala rejected Ani early in TAotC. There would thus have been a lot more time to build two or three believable motivations for his fall, based on Anakin's character flaws. (NB: ...whether those motivations and plot points matched the ones I outlined or not. I was only providing an example for how the story could have been redeemed.) I do still believe that Luca$ had a different story in mind -- based on 'residual' actions left in the movie -- but that he "went out of his way" to make Anakin more marketable as a youthful hero, for as long as possible.
But, I will grant that Ep III was a better movie than I or II, and that the special effects were bleeding edge. Luca$ really pulled out all the stops, putting on a special effects bonanza. I thought the quality, quantity and appropriateness of the SFX were clearly superior to the previous holder of the title, "Matrix Revolutions". (NB: Don't get me started on why "The Matrix" was an excellent movie, while "Reloaded" and "Revolutions" were classic poor storytelling. You have been warned.)
As long as one could just relax and enjoy the visuals without being distracted by the lame storytelling, the moviegoer might find a lot to like about Ep III. Lots of explosions and light saber fights and a fantastic opening sequence...
Unfortunately for me, I go to the movies expecting -- no, insisting -- to be told a proper story. My bad.
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
I've just got to ask: "77, 78, 81, 84, 05! This time it's for keeps!" ??? Been looking for love in all the wrong places?
My wife's British from Newmarket..._________________________________________________
"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'
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I want to hear your Matrix stories!!!
Just kidding - can we at least agree that overall, the NT were more satisfying than the MT. At least Ep III was an improvement on its predecessors, which is more can be said about the Matrix sequels. But that's a whole other thread and I'm too tired....! (although I'll just comment that I waited in the rain outside one of the Matrix premieres - the second one I think - where I caught a brief, distant glimpse of Mrs L Fishburne. Of course at the time I was not aware of her true identity...)
I live in the UK (but I daresay you checked my Profile and knew that!) and Ep III was actually a PG-12 over here. Have to admit I'm not aware of its actual rating in the US but seem to recall reading mention of a PG-13 rating in interviews.
I agree that the seeds of evil should have been sown earlier - but they weren't. And slaughtering Sandpeople aside there wasn't significant development in AOTC - hence it all had to happen within the 2 hour framework of ROTS.
Zoid, I really do think your idea is a good one, but for better or worse that's not the version committed to celuloid for millions to enjoy/endure and so I can only comment on the characterisation I saw on screen, not what I wish I couldhave seen.
Anyhow, fortunately I think we have another movie to look forward to this year with superior story-telling skills and proper characters....I, for one, can't wait for... "Batman Begins"
(oh yeah, that "Serenity" looks OK too)
_____________________________________
"Why would I want to leave Serenity?"
"Can't think of a reason."
Over 100 Serenity screencaps now available at www.destinything.com (yep, bought me a proper name!)
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fray101:
I don't want to wear you out. ("...I'm too tired.") Yes, I did read your profile (thank you for being considerate of my peculiar needs). I guess I appended my question about "77, 78, 81, 84, 05! This time it's for keeps!" and my statement that my wife's from Newmarket too late to catch your notice...
"Batman Begins" -- while not typically my kind of story -- does feature the intriguing Christian Bale in the lead. I thought he did an amazingly convincing turn in "American Psycho", and that should translate well into the character of the Dark Knight. So, I'm considering catching the flick...
Have a fine, soft evening. (London currently at 76° F / 24° C, winds steady out of the WSW at 9 knots, low humidity, clear or partly cloudy; sounds like a nice evening for a stroll to the local.)
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
For those considering a Profile Page entry in order to facilitate appropriate conversation, I've always liked "old enough for the scales to have fallen from my eyes." It's a Biblical reference (sorry, to those this may offend) to having one's illusions about the world swept away, and seeing Life honestly in all its beauty, and horrible truth. For most, this will be in the late twenties, for a minority in the early thirties or even late teens. I think it's mostly about having lived through some unfairness at Life's hands; but realizing that it was nothing personal, that everyone goes through adversity. If you still think Life is being unfair to you personally, or that you are the 'captain of your own ship of Destiny', then the scales have not yet been removed from your eyes.
The happiest people I know -- and to whom I come closest to envying -- are those in their later years who still cling to a child-like wonder, rather than becoming cantankerous old men before their time (like me).
_________________________________________________
"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'
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Sorry - hadn't even noticed the question about 77, 78 etc! That's a reference to the football (soccer) Champions League Final which my beloved Liverpool won for the 5th time last night!
Right, time to go home - have to admit I haven't done much work today with all this posting!
Take care Zoid - May The Force, nah, best not go there!
_____________________________________
"Why would I want to leave Serenity?"
"Can't think of a reason."
Over 100 Serenity screencaps now available at www.destinything.com (yep, bought me a proper name!)
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fray101:
May the Force be with us all.
v/r,
-zed
P.S.
I said I was a fanboy. I just don't particularly appreciate The Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal (Ep III).
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Hey folks
Ignoring the whole Star Wars debate for a while, it seems to have died nicely anyway, I was quite intrigued by the profile requirements. You see I too check the profiles but I know others do not.
Technically I can see the merit in both, you see do we check the profile and get an entirely inappropriate idea about what people are like or do we have no idea what we are like and form opinions only on the posts?
This is a deep and serious philosophical conversation. For example, my profile makes a point of saying that I study the Bible which, judging by Zoid's considerate comment, leads people to assume I am religious and probably Christian. This is in fact total nonsense, I read and study the Bible because it is a fascinating insight into ancient history, a tool used by people for centuries for good and for ill and the provider of some of the most important stories in Western culture. Plus, it has some rather spiffing fantasy yarns.
On the other hand people may read my posts and think 'ah, nice and fluffy' because I like overtly friendly and non-controversial postings. In reality I have an evil temper and can be quite nasty. This is the precise reason why I like nice fluffy posts because I have to watch what I write (I am trying to be a better person - awwww). So what is better, judging by profile or posting?
extremely dimensionally transcendental
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If you can get it, both.
see, Zoid was not familiar with the person's online persona so he went to the profile in hopes of some clue. He always tries his best to tailor his responses to the individual he is talking with. he's very good about that. And he's nice.
I’m pretty much what I appear to be…a random, odd girl who obsess over Firefly. And I like to skip.
www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
Can we not revel in our cyber-love?
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