Piracy and My Favorite Show: Firefly
POSTED BY: EndangeredMassa
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 02:42
VIEWED: 14042
PAGE 6 of 8
To Sir Troll Sigmundicky,
It is a amazing that you argue so logically but you really keep saying the same thing. Could it be that copying is not stealing? Let's review:
Stealing:
To take (the property of another) without right or permission. (that is an ENGLISH definition, not AMERICAN)
DO YOU HAVE THE FILE/MOVIE? If yes, proceed.
DID YOU TELL YOUR FTP PROGRAM TO TAKE IT FROM ANOTHER SIGHT? If yes, keep proceeding.
DID YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO TAKE SAID FILE?
There is no gray area. You like to argue. You keep saying (cryptically) it depends on what country you live in, like if we live in the US, we have forgotten all about the rest of the world. What country do you live in? Enlighten us more about this invisible anarchy that is functioning in our world.
Go read Atlas Shrugged. Your kind of attitude helps stop the world from turning.
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Let's try to take it easy, folks. Here are a few things to keep in mind:
1) Even though "intellectual property" is a legal construct and not the same thing as physical property, the law currently acknowledges an intellectual property right
2) Well-intentioned, intelligent, ethical-minded people can differ on the degree to which "intellectual property" *ought* to be protected, and *for how long* (that 2nd point is the one that really gets me)
3) While unauthorized copying does not deprive someone else of their copy (and is therefore potentially less bad than stealing a physical object), it does make possible thousands or millions of copies which is not possible to do with physical objects (so is potentially worse than stealing a single physical object). In the end, they are two very different things and it's better to evaluate the moral and ethical issues separately. (See points #1 and #2)
4) 99% of the people on this forum love Firefly, care about the success of Serenity, and understand that the movie's financial success is key to getting more Firefly/Serenity from Joss.
5) Disagreeing on point #2 does not necessarily mean point #4 does not apply.
We now return you to your previously scheduled flame-fest.
Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverdeli:
Stealing:
To take (the property of another) without right or permission. (that is an ENGLISH definition, not AMERICAN)
The key word you seem to be ignoring here is right. The definition specifically say permission OR right. As in you can have rights without permission. Probably (or syg) you have have no right to a new movie without permission. But your definition of steals doesn't prove that at all.
-Eli
If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.
www.civil-unrest.com
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<
Hmm, well, when I'm trying to figure out how to pay the water bill because I'm nearly out of money, or even trying to figure out how to buy the next box of CDs because fans want to buy them, well, then yeah, I think folks making illegal copies of my music rather than paying me for it certainly is affecting me.
But my point was not really that piracy is affecting me--it's that piracy looks extremely different when you're the artist whose work is getting ripped off. When you're sitting there hoping that enough people will like your art that you'll manage to turn a profit on a huge investment someday, piracy starts looking pretty damn mean. It's certainly not something I'd do to any artist I really like and respect, and I'd have to class Joss Whedon and all of the Firefly team in that category.
"You can't take my show from me,
Because I've got the DVD."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I haven't read one post that stated any intention (implied or not) to download Serenity. In fact, everyone has stated that they're going to see it along with many that they bring with them. So, why you are stating this is beyond me.Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
If anyone pirates this movie I'll personally never forgive them. Then I'll download it cause I really really wanna see it again and again. Which I doubt will stop me from going again and again when the movie hits theaters.
So, you're just not reading. I think I've found the problem.
You're taking that quote out of context.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverdeli:
To Sir Troll Sigmundicky,
I find it funny that you try to take some sort of moral high ground here yet say this. I also find it interesting that because I've taken a position against yours that I'm immediately labeled a troll. Perhaps that is another thing that you should look up.
And by the way, if you would have bothered to look at my profile, you'd know that I'm in Canada. Please note that we currently have reasonable laws regarding copyright unlike the US (ie your DMCA).
Our laws are against distribution (uploading).
And the rest of your post is illogical drivel. Learn about what you speak of before you open your month. You're only making yourself look like a fool.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
Hmm, well, when I'm trying to figure out how to pay the water bill because I'm nearly out of money, or even trying to figure out how to buy the next box of CDs because fans want to buy them, well, then yeah, I think folks making illegal copies of my music rather than paying me for it certainly is affecting me.
Do you know that this is happening? I'm just wondering, because since you are still an indie there is the serious question as to if people even know you exist.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
But my point was not really that piracy is affecting me--it's that piracy looks extremely different when you're the artist whose work is getting ripped off.
And what would you say if I downloaded your music and started to come see you in the clubs, bought you album, etc. There is a flip side to this you know.
I for one have started to try before I buy because of the situation. ie Back when I was in highschool if I like a song on the radio, I would buy the album and like most, if not all, of the tracks on it. Now, if I buy an album b/c of 1 or 2 tracks, I still just like those 1 or 2 tracks. This makes it about $20 or $10 per song respectively. I cannot justify paying that much money for that little. Thus I try before I buy.
You seem to fail to understand that downloading is not inherently evil. It can be a great publisitly tool and many artists have embraced it and encouraged it.
I'm also wondering at this point, if it were 15 yrs ago, if you'd be saying the same thing about people using tapes to "pirate" your music.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
It's certainly not something I'd do to any artist I really like and respect, and I'd have to class Joss Whedon and all of the Firefly team in that category.
And no-one is saying any different in this specific case.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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The general case here is me protecting my money. Me refusing to buy complete crap fooled by misleading comercials, etc that I cannot return.
You people in the US talk hard about freedom, etc. But do you even know what it means to fight for it. I mean really, beyond that of bullets and bombs.
I have tried not buying crap, to weed it out, to only rent DVD's and on and on. Did this help? No, the problem got worse. There is more crap being produced now more than ever before.
So, now I try before I buy. It is a valid form of civil disobedience, the only option left that might change things. And I'll say it one more time:
Once they start producing movies, etc where the majority are actually good, worth it movies, I'll stop downloading.
A perfect example is the movie Robots. This could have been a great movie. There was a lot of great ideas, etc in it. But it was executed in a way that you could see that the producer didn't care about making a good movie. They only cared to make the movie good enough that people would watch it and they'd make money. So, the story and scenes were dijoint to the point of the movie being a disappointing experience.
Again:
Fix that, and I'll stop downloading.
My demands are simple and reasonable.
Feel free to let fly any parting remarks. This is my last post here as all that reply don't seem to even acknowledge that I have a point. I leave you to you irrationality.
Good day.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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OKAYYY...
I AGREE THAT PIRACY IS A BAD THING. TO A DEGREE.
BUT, SEEING THAT TICKETS FOR THE PRE-SCREENING SOLD OUT IN THREE HOURS, YOU WOULD BE DOING ALL OF US A FAVOR BY ATTENDING.
MAYBE THEY WILL OFFER MORE SHOWINGS TO DISCOURAGE JUST THIS KIND OF ACTIVITY.
YOU HAVE MY EMAIL...
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I have an idea. Just pirate Canadian stuff. That sounds fair.
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